Help please, a question to the Gaeilge speakers... is the pronunciation of Sranaviddoge anything like srana-vid-ogue and which, if any, syllable carries the emphasis?
I'm in the wretched minority on our glorious planet I - speak only one language.
Dan
Monday 2nd Oct 2023, 02:10AM
Message Board Replies
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Is this what you are looking for?
Margot
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The Irish form of the name is Screathan na bhFeadóg, which I assume means "[scree] slope of the plovers", although I can't verify that at logainm.ie, since it's not translated there:
https://www.logainm.ie/en/8291
A native Irish speaker in Cork would pronounce that as "SKRAH-hun nuh ved-OG" [emphasized syllables capitalized], with "SKRAH" rhyming with the second syllable in the English exclamation "Aha!" and the "o" in "OG" rhyming with the English word "no" (by contrast, in Conachta or Ulster the emphasis in the last word would be different: "SKRAH-hun nuh VED-og").
However, the "c" in "Screathan", which is missing in the anglicized form, can be very hard for an English speaker to hear, which is probably why it was left out in the anglicized form. You can see what I mean if you listen to it at the abair.ie site (just insert Screathan na bhFeadóg in the field provided and click on the button below there):
As you'll see, the beginning sound can be very hard to hear if one isn't used to Irish. It can even sound like just an "h". I don't know for certain, but I suspect that the locals would pronounce it much the same way as at abair.ie, even if they aren't fluent Irish speakers, though it might now sound more like "SRAH-hun nuh ved-OG".
kevin45sfl
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Well done and thank you for that! The abair.ie site is very handy to know out about also, so thank you again.
There's a gap in my understanding. You mention that the Irish form of the name is Screathan na bhFeadóg which I assume was anglicised to Sranaviddoge and some variants.
The modern anglicized name for that townland appears to be Scrahan, sometimes with an 'e'. That's what I see on Google Maps in Australia. It's also on my grandfather's Australian marriage record. He married in Brisbane in 1898 and presumably gave his birthplace as Scrahan, County Cork, as that is how it's recorded.
Perhaps Scrahan was a local short-form of Screathan na bhFeadóg and is still in use today. Is that a reasonable interpretation?
Please know I'm busy practicing Screathan na bhFeadóg with the assistance of abair.ie. At least I'll have one word in Irish!
Dan
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Glad to help. I realized this morning that I should have explained a few more things.
Since you're already working with abair.ie, I assume you figured out that you can listen to words in all three of the main dialects of Irish by clicking on the three little circles on the map of Ireland at the site. The one at the bottom left of the map is for Munster (mainly Cork these days), the middle one is for Conachta (Galway and Mayo these days), and the top one is for Ulster (mainly Donegal these days). Then you click the button to hear the word (which you sometimes have to do twice).
One important thing that I should have mentioned is that the name can also be understood as "[skree] slope of the whistles", and "whistle" is by far the most common meaning of feadóg". That seemed unlikely to me when I first answered yesterday, so I picked "plover", but on second thought I realized that it could refer to something like wind whistling down the slope, or perhaps be a reference to some local story or legend. If you go there someday, someone may be able to tell you specifically what it refers to, although from my own experience I know that the meanings of local place names have sometimes been obscured with time, particularly as people lost their Irish-speaking ability.
The last thing I should have mentioned is that, in what I transliterated as "SKRAH-hun nuh ved-OG" , the "hun" syllable is barely heard (as you probably know already from abair.ie), and is almost reduced to a glottal stop. That happens because the "n" sound merges (as spoken) with the "n" in the middle word, na (or "nuh", as I transliterated it). By contrast, when the word screathan is pronounced by itself, the second syllable can be heard more fully (though still as a very short syllable), because there's nothing after it with which to merge.
As for your question about the Scrahan form of the name, I don't know for sure, but people do sometimes shorten names for convenience. I have relatives from a townland which is anglicized in its full form as Comderrynabinnia (from Camdhoire na Binne = "crooked oak of the cliff/peak"), but it is usually referred to locally as just Comderry or Comderra, both orally and in many old written records. It's probably the same situation with the use of the shortened form Scrahan (which can also be found by itself in other places in Ireland).
kevin45sfl
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That's brilliant Kevin so thank you once again. It's clear that for you, and the many Ireland xo volunteers I am sure, it's a labour of love. Many years ago I had an Irish girlfriend who taught and coached Irish language and taught Irish dance to kids, all in her spare time. So, I'm aware of the passion that many Irish people bring to their culture and heritage. I salute you all.
I now have a better understanding of the history and evolution, and the pronunciation of Irish placenames.
Could I respectfully suggest that Ireland xo publicises the abair.ie web-tool a little more? I found it very rewarding but it does not come up easily on a web search and I'm sure I'm not the first visitor who wonders how those ever-so-foreign-looking placenames actually sound.
Best wishes,
Dan