Cork Ancestors

Dorothy:

The free site irishgenealogy.ie has Co. Cork church records for parishes in the Diocese of Cork and Ross. I searched and locate a September 15 1850 baptismal record for a John Kittle at SS. Peter and Paul father William Kittle mother Ellen Leary.  I went to the parish register and reviewed the entry and it does appear to be Kittle.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633091#page/108/mode/1up

Despite the slight difference in spelling, I believe this is your ancestor. The oldest child of John and Ellen was William adds credence that this is the correct record.

Regarding Ellen Horigan or Horgan, there are two leads in Ss Peter and Paul parish:

November 30 1846 baptismal record for an Ellen Horgan with father Edmond Horgan and mother Hannah Byrns.

March 19 1845 baptismal record for Ellen Horgan father Con Horgan mother Margaret Sullivan

Let me know if you have questions.

Roger McDonnell

Good afternoon Roger,

My apologies for not getting back to you sooner but wanted to thank you for replying to my question about my ancestors.  I appreciate the new information you were able to discover.  It is good to know that what you found, as I on my trip, regarding the Kettle family are my ancestors.  The baptismal records the  church pulled for me was the book beginning in the year 1870.  I didn't request earlier because the dates showing of the children of John and Ellen I have been given by family begin 1870 - 1881.  I will definitely visit the registry link you attached to compare.  

I too have noticed in the book a few Kittles; one of the children is Cornelius and last name was spelled Kittle in the records but names and dates are a match.  So I'm assuming whoever entered the name just spelled it with an "i" instead of an "e"?

I also appreciate the information on Ellen Horgan/Horigan.  Due to limited time I had in Cork I didn't get the chance to request the books before 1870.  I was just focused in on my great grandfather, John, and his siblings as well as confirming the real name of their mother, Ellen.   

My next question is about a discrepancy between John's baptismal/birth records from the church and his civil marriage records from the state of New York.  So if I may I'd like to pick your brain to see what you think.  

We now know John's baptismal records show mom to be Ellen Horigan/Horgan and we have his New York Death certificate that shows Margaret Horigan/Horgan as his mother.  So I feel this woman is the same person as the dates line up.  The conundrum is his marriage license.  According to the NY City marriage records it lists Helen Haus as his mother.  

I've attached both the baptismal record from SS. Peter and Paul Church as well as his NY marriage .  When you had a moment can you take a look?  What are your thoughts?  At our genealogy center here in Houston, they feel Helen Haus would be the mother since John was alive to give that information to the NY office.  But his church records and death records all point to Ellen/Margaret Horigan/Horgan.

I can see Ellen to possibly be shortened or changed to Helen or the person in the NY office just recorded it wrong?  I realize I may not ever find out the real reason but just wanted to get your opinion.

Thank you again for all you have done to uncover this information.  I appreciate your time.

Best regards,

Dorothy Vetrano

Dorothy:

Did Ellen/Helen remarry?

Roger

That is a great question.  We have been wondering that ourselves but unfortunately we no longer have living relatives who we could ask.  What we do know is that my great grandfather, John J. Kettle (DOB 1/12/1881) came to US in 1885 along with his mother Ellen/Margaret.  We have City of Cork death registry that indicate her husband's (John Kettle) date of death December 29 1881 of typhus fever at the age of 28.  So maybe it's possible she remarried.  Maybe on her son's death certificate they had to give the mom's original/maiden name at the time of his birth? 

I'll keep searching.

Thank you!  This is very interesting.  Appreciate your correspondence.

Dorothy

Dorothy,

I am not related but thought I would checkout Irishgenealogy (free) and Ancestry to find more information. Note- since they were in Cork, Irishgenealogy has both Church and Civil records on the Kettle family. Per Irishgenealogy, John's father's name was William and Ellen's was Cornelius. Per the marriage record, Ellen was 19 (b. 1850). They had at least 4 children identified in the Irishgenealogy civil records- William 1870, Cornelius 1872-1882, Ellen 1877, and John 1881. Per the 1885 ships roster, four Kettle children (Maggie 10, Ellen 8, Mary 6?, and John 4?) were travelling with Margaret Horigan 30.

Could Ellen have stayed in Cork with William? There was an Ellen Kettle who died in 1922 at age 75 in Cork. Could that be her? That said, on the 1901 census there was an Ellen Kettle married to William Kettle living in Cork. This death record could be hers.

In the 1910 and 1920 censuses, a Margaret Kelly born about 1860, widow, designated Aunt, was living with John and Celia in New York. Perhaps she was the one that brought them over in 1885 and is sometimes confused as John's mother??

In the 1900 census, Maggie and Ellen were living with their sister Mary Kettle O'Hara in New York. Mary had married James O'Hara. On trees, her mother's name is Ellen. Mary and James moved to New Jersey and in the 1910 census they had Johanna Hourigan b.1845 living with them. She was designated as an Aunt.

Not sure if this is helpful?

Regards- Mary

Dorothy,

There was a Margaret Horigan born in 1861 to Cornelius Horigan and Margaret Sullivan. I also found a record for their son John born in 1863.

Regards- Mary

Hi Mary,

Thank you so much for this wonderful information.  I so appreciate you taking the time to look into this and share.  My cousin has done some research and came up with similar information you mentioned in your first paragraph.  So I'm thinking Ellen stayed in Cork with her husband and sent the kids with Margaret?  I, too, have found a Margaret Horigan born to a Cornelius and Margaret.  This could be the same person but I haven't yet had time to compare my notes.  Will look this weekend and share with my cousins.  Will keep you posted.    

Many kind thanks,

Dorothy

Dorothy,

William, Ellen's husband, had died by 1885. I was referring to her son William (abt. 15 in 1885) as staying in Ireland with her.

Regards- Mary

Apologize- John was Ellen's husband who died before 1885.

Hi Mary,

Thank you for the clarification.  John Kettle (my great, great grandfather and Ellen's husband) died  Dec. 29, 1881. 

I believe you maybe right Ellen (mom) must have stayed behind with older son William in Cork as there is no record of them on the ship.

Dorothy

Hi Mary,

You have been very helpful!  I was able to pull up the 1920 census and my cousin and I too believe that Margaret Kelly was an Aunt and she could have been the one to bring the kids over.  Good find!

Thank you,

Dorothy