Greetings, I’ve been searching for great grandparents 2x removed records. William Moore married Eleanor (Ellen) Bradley in 1850 at the Townsend Presbyterian Church, Belfast (proven). I’ve not had any success with my search moving beyond “William”. His father is listed as Thomas, a Staymaker. Anyhow, I came upon a record for a baptism in 1850 for the church of Ireland for William - as the applicant? Father Thomas, mother Margaret. I was wondering if, perhaps, this William is my William? I just couldn’t understand the notes on the record referring to 1921?! Any thoughts wonderful people ? Thank you
PennyElaine
Saturday 22nd Apr 2023, 02:35AMMessage Board Replies
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Penny:
The first record is a search form for a William Moore from Belfast who was applying for the Old Age Pension in October 1921. This William needed to prove he was 70 and the government clerks were searching for a church baptismal record. It looks like they found an 1850 record in St. Peter's parish in 1850.
I don't think this record relates to your William married in 1850. Regarding the 1819 baptismal record, it could be for your William. Do you have a copy of the 1850 marriage record and does it shown an age or just "full" meaning 21 plus?
Roger McDonnell
Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
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Attached FilesScreen Shot 2023-04-23 at 4.45.21 pm.png (1.34 MB)IMG_0069.jpg (525.94 KB)W Moore Death Cert.jpg (934.51 KB)
Thank you Roger, I’ve attached the marriage record for William Moore & Eleanor (Ellen) Bradley and William’s death certificate. William’s age differs by 9 years when calculating from these certificates ie he was born either in 1820 or 1829 (or other ?). Not knowing where William was born is a bit of a challenge! Eleanor travelled to Australia in May1875, with her surviving children. William appeared to have had a thriving brush making business. However, I’m assuming that after his death in 1868, “things” didn’t go well or perhaps a decision was made to migrate?? In any event the families holdings were put up for auction in 1874 - newspaper advertisement attached. I’ve always wondered what would have made a widow travel all the way to Australia, with young children in tow. Sounds extreme to me. Thanks again, Penny PS: had trouble loading photos, the newspaper clip is last
PennyElaine
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Penny,
The various attachments aren’t in a format that allows them to be opened. However here is a link to the marriage:
Ages on death certificates were often just guesses. In the 1800s people in Ireland rarely celebrated birthdays and often didn’t know quite how old they were. If officialdom asked for an age, it was common to just guess, especially with a death where the informant might have even less knowledge. A discrepancy of 9 years is not unusual.
In general Australia was a much less popular destination for Irish emigrants, simply because of the cost of getting there. So those who did go there were either assisted in some way (ie by the state or by relatives) or comparatively well off.
Here’s William’s probate abstract. His estate is described as “under £300.” (Using an inflation calculator, that appears to be around £43,000 today).
The Will of William Moore late of North-street Belfast County Antrim Hardware Merchant deceased who died 25 August 1868 at Belfast aforesaid was proved at Belfast by the oath of Ellen Moore of North-street Belfast aforesaid the Widow and sole Executrix.
The will itself is on-line and mentions him owning property in Arkwright St. At least 8 houses, plus a piece of empty ground suitable for building on, so he wasn’t too badly off. He left his shop to his son Jameson, upon reaching 25 years of age. Possibly the son chose to sell it in 1874?
I think you may struggle to find much about William Moore’s origins. It’s important to know that a lot of Irish baptism records are not on-line, especially for Presbyterian families, and therefore it can be hard going researching them. If he was Presbyterian and born in Belfast then most of the church records are in PRONI but you need to go in person to search them. For the 1820s there are probably about 10 Presbyterian churches in Belfast that were open then.
But we don’t actually know he was born in Belfast. The population of Belfast expanded dramatically in the 1800s. In it’s early years it was largely Presbyterian (being dominated by Scots who had moved to Ireland in the 1600s). The population of Belfast in 1800 was about 20,000. In 1901 it was 349,000. The establishment of the shipyards, 50 linen mills and countless support industries led to a huge influx of workers from the surrounding countryside who were looking for better paid jobs in the city.
Your ancestor might have been born in Belfast but it’s equally possible that his parents were amongst the tens of thousands who were pouring into the city every year around that time. And without some idea of where they came from, it’s a needle in a haystack.
Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have additional information about where the family originate. Family Tree DNA reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to try them or, if you have already tested, you can transfer your results to them for no fee.
The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced price. http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
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Thank you Elwyn, sorry about the format. I was having a lot of trouble with attaching :(. In saying that I already have all of the info you mentioned. It’s a huge “blob” not finding them. A trip to Ireland was on the cards - it’s such a very long way to come, particularly if finding records isn’t guaranteed. I’ll follow your suggestion re DNA. Thanks again. Penny
PennyElaine
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Penny,
There’s no guarantee of finding the baptism. I agree. You could employ a researcher to do the searching for you. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net
Yes it’s a long way to come to Belfast, but I have been to Oz 3 times, and I know how long and boring the journey is, but it can be done. You can do it too!
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
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You made me laugh Elwyn - thank you
PennyElaine