Hanna and Mulligan of Crossgar, Dromara, Down

dbe,

Looking at Griffiths Valuation of Crossgar in 1863 there were 2 John Hanna properties. Plot 56 (27 acres) and plot 68 (5 acres plus some more land in plot 69).  Usually when there are 2 people of the same name in a  townland, the Griffiths clerks would use an agnomen (nickname) to distinguish different folk. If there is no agnomen then usually the one person holds more than one property in the townland. So I think John Hanna probably had two farms there at that time.

Searching the Valuation revision records, which take Griffiths forward, I see that John Hanna on plot 56 is deleted in 1887 and replaced by Samuel Hanna. In turn in 1910, Samuel is replaced by Robert Hanna. John Hanna on plot 68 is replaced by Joseph in 1871. Not sure of the connection there.

This looks to be Samuel in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205174/

By 1911 the farm is held by Robert who had married Jeannie (Jane) Earls on 17.2.1908 in Saintfield 1st. The marriage cert confirms his father was John Hanna. So it looks as though the farm went from John Hanna senior to son Samuel, and when he died to another son Robert.

Robert and family in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar…

John Hanna senior died at Crossgar on 29.2.1884 aged 62. Informant was son John. His wife Jane died 12.12.1892 aged 73. Informant was son Samuel. Samuel died 16.8.1907 aged 50. Still a bachelor.

So I can’t help you with what happened to the 3 daughters Elizabeth, Mary & Martha but I suspect that there were 3 sons around until the early 1900s and 2 for some time after that.

Deaths and marriages on this website:

https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/

Griffiths:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

Valuation revision records:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni

John Hanna junior in 1901, who has presumably acquired the second farm:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205184/

John junior married Mary Jamison on 20.8.1879. The marriage cert confirms his father was named John.

Some probate abstracts from the PRONI wills site:

Probate of the Will of Samuel Hanna late of Crossgar Dromara County Down Farmer who died 16 August 1907 granted at Belfast to William Poole Farmer.

The will itself is on-line and Samuel left everything to Robert.

Hanna Robert of Crossgar county Down farmer died 21 October 1926 Administration Belfast 16 February to Jane Hanna the widow. Effects £573 18s. 9d.

John & Jane’s children were all apparently born before 1864 so you would need to check baptism records to make sure these are all the correct family.

Elwyn

Many thanks for your reply. I had posted some years ago but recently noticed the posting was no longer there, or so I thought, so I decided to post again. You had responded some time ago so I am very sorry if I caused you any additional work.

Re your research, plus some I have ben able to do, I believe we are dealing with two different families in the Griffiths' records.

The first John Hanna was born about 1820, married Jane Hanna in 1845 and they had seven children, including John b 1850 (he married at least twice), Samuel 1852 and Robt 1857. They farmed Plots 56 + 57 and after John Snr' death in 1884 the plots passed to Samuel, who died in 1907, then to Robt and then to Robt's wife Jane (Jeanine Earls). This family was very much asssociated with the 1st Presbyterian Church. My family doesn't fit in with this family. The dates are very different.

The second John Hanna I believe had Plots 68 and half of 69. I haven't been able to determine his wife or a birth date but I suspect he died age 94 yrs in 1867. I suspect he also had a brother Samuel who died in 1866, age 82yrs. John's plots passed to son Joseph in 1871 and when he died in 1884 (age 54yrs), the plots passed to his wife Esther and then subsequently to their son David. This family was more associated with the 2nd Presbyterian Church. It is possible that the John Hanna I am researching could fit into this family. But I don't know who John Snr married and what children they had. Joseph is I suspect of a similar age to my John and whilst his children are slightly older they were also baptised in the 2nd Presbyterian, as were John's children. 

I have looked through Roots Ireland fairly extensively but haven't been able to come up with anything more. I have looked at a few other John Hanna's including one born in 1833, with father John but the total family went to Canada.  

Any thoughts on how I could explore the second John Hanna further?

Many thanks for all of your work and again my apologies if I have caused additional work.

Thank you

David 

David,

For the Joseph who had the son David, I think he married Esther Marshall on 19.2.1867 at 2nd Ballynahinch. He lived in Crossgar and his father was John.  I see the following children to that marriage, all born Crossgar:

Sarah Reid Hanna 30.6.1868

William John Hanna 22.1.1870

William James 24.1.1877

This is that family in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Crossgar/Crossgar__part_/1205164/

2nd Dromara only has baptism records from 1853 onwards though the church opened in 1844, so 10 years are missing. Perhaps the family attended the 1st before that? Their records go back to 1762. The 2nds website says it was opened to assist members of the congregation who couldn’t attend the 1st due to distance.

http://www.lisburn.com/churches/Lisburn-churches/second-dromara-presbyterian.html

Neither the 1st nor the 2nds records appear to be on-line. There are however copies of both sets of records in PRONI but if you can’t get there yourself, you would need to get a researcher to go there for you.

PRONI has a number of documents relating to Hanna in Crossgar. I don’t know whether any relate to your family. The are:

1824 lease to James Hanna D778/748

1826 leases to John & Anna Hanna D1954/4/429

1840 Indenture mentioning Sam Hanna’s boundaries D4473/3/10

1879  Agreement between William Marshall, Mary Jane Marshall and Thomas Percy Marshall, Representatives of the late Samuel Hanna of Crossgar on the one part, and Andrew Thomas Clarke of Crossgar, on the other part, in respect of two fields at the Orange Hall in Crossgar which were sold to Andrew Thomas Clarke for £73, 10s. D4473/3/18

Elwyn

Many thanks again for all of your work.

From Roots Ireland i did make a rough copy of all of the marriages and births of Hanna's at 1st and 2nd Dromara. And yes births only start in 1853 at 2nd Dromara. I couldn't find any burial records for he churches but did get death records from 1841. I have used some of these records in our correspondence. 

Your William John above is i believe a mistake in the records and it should be David John Hanna. 

Re the 1879 agreement, William Marshall and Mary Jane Marshall are Esther Marshall's parent. She married Jospeh, the son of John who had Plots 56 and 57. Mary Jane was a Hanna and her father was Samuel. 

I do have a general question for you. Crossgar and Dromara seem to be on the intersection of the three Civil Districts of Lisburn, Banbridge and Downpatrick. Correct? So any Civil records could be under any of these three?   

I live in NZ so not able to get into PRONI. I did when we visited a couple of years ago and again some of my records are using what I found. I feel that in the past you felt it needed a professional to do some research into the Hanna's. How do I go about finding someone?

Thank you

David

David,

Presbyterians generally don’t keep burial records, so there’s no surprise that you couldn’t find any for 2nd Dromara. But does it even have a graveyard? Not all Presbyterian churches do. The default option for many Presbyterians was to be buried in the Church of Ireland. Or in this case, perhaps Dromara 1st if it has a graveyard.

Statutory death registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864. Prior to that the only church to routinely keep burials was the Church of Ireland, so if you have found some burials for 1841 then they are probably for that denomination.  They only recorded their own congregation so where someone of another denomination was buried there (eg a Presbyterian) it won’t normally appear in the Church of Ireland records.

In most cases the civil registrar’s district was the same as the Poor Law Union.  So if you want to work out where a birth, death or marriage will be registered you need to identify the PLU. You can do that using this website:

https://thecore.com/seanruad/

Type in the townland where the event occurred and it’ll tell you the PLU, and thus the relevant civil registration district.

I re-checked the birth on 22.1.1870 and the child was named William John (not David John). Possibly he was known as David John but it’s not on the birth certificate. Here’s a link to the certificate:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Here’s a link to researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.ne

The Hanna’s have been in Ireland from very early days. It’s a bit hard to be sure but around 1625 when Tyringham was in charge of a ‘newly raised company of foot’. He was Governor from 1626-?31. A merchant named Lawson “obtained permission from Sir Arthur Tyringham to place his newly raised regiment at Lisburn, under the charge of his two lieutenants, Clugston and Hanna, and of his quarter-master Stewart; His shipment of butter was detained in Derry and after being freed, the ship ended up being used to evacuate 500 people to Scotland.

Found an interesting article on the Hanna’s of Castle Sorbie , some of whom settled in Ireland.  I also remember reading somewhere that the Hanna’s opened one of the first banks in Newry.

https://archive.org/stream/hannaofcastlesor00hann/hannaofcastlesor00hann_djvu.txt

Thanks to a DNA link, I have been able to locate one of Agnes Ann Hanna's siblings. Elizabeth, born 1857, married Robert Charles Stanley Bower (1852-1915) in 1876 in Belfast. They had seven children, one of whom went to the US. She died in 1924 in Belfast.   

I would still apprecaite any thoughts regarding the rest of the family. 

Elwyn's assistance has been tremendous and I have used the services of a researcher in Belfast but we haven't been able to come up with anything else.  

Hello again,

This family is unconnected to our Browns, Gourleys, Lees etc - so think it has come in error...?

Thanks,

Kathleen Patterson (Ekroth)

Kathleen

I am unsure how to respond as I am not familiar with "our Browns, Gourleys, Lees etc". Perhaps if you could share a little more information I may be able to comment.

Thank you

David 

Hi David,

Sorry to confuse you!

My message was really directed to Ireland Reaching Out (and specifically to Elwyn - who had seriously helped me last week).

that your thread had come to me, presumably in error.

Best of Luck with your genealogy,

Kathleen