Looking for McDonells/Kings lived near Pound Street (Sarsfield Street) / Possibly Abbey Lane

Hi Tess . . . 

Welcome to. . .  Ireland Reaching Out . . . 

I am not sure that I am the person to help you . . I believe more LOCAL knowledge in NENAGH is what is required . . . I am NOT a local. . 

The Marriage register for Church weddings . . ONLINE . . . ends in 1881 . . . which probably excludes looking for your marriage of Tim to Cath. . . 

the LOCAL (IRO)  volunteer for Nenagh . .  could . . maybe . .access the actual later Church records . . after 1881 . . . . 

IF . . what I have found . . . is not adding to YOUR sum of knowledge  . . then I would suggest that you get back to IRO headoffice . . and ask them 

to alert the LOCAL NENAGH volunteer . . .__________________________________

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I did find . . searching on Roots (paid) . . (see below) . . . TWO BIRTHS  . . . for Nenagh in 1885 . . 

Patrick (baptism) 7 Sept 1885 . . . Parents . .  Patrick King. . .  and  . . Cath.McDonnell

Patrick ( born 31 Aug.1885 - - baptism 16 Sept )   to Patrick (tailor) . . and Cath.McDonnell . . . 

These two individuals . . appear . . to be different ( as you hinted ) . . . so . . confusion . . . ( local knowledge needed)

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NEXT . . (below) . . I had a look at the. . .  1901 . . .  Census . . . ( no comment on same )

and then . . in 1911 . . . 

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When I searched . . Census's . . . for 1901 . . and 1911 for Tim(othy) age 14 and 24 for Tipperary or Limerick . . . NOTHING . . . 

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(below ) . . . the MARRIAGE of Timothy (1909) to Ann Lynch in Limerick,

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When I search for the many other names and dates . . .I mostly FAIL to identify any . . . 

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I hope . . some of this will be useful to your search . . . and I am sure I cannot be of further help in this search . . . 

Do try . . through IRO headoffice to activate the Nenagh volunteer . . 

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Regards . . E.M.H.

I believe both those 1885 records relate to the same Patrick King - the first is a baptism with the date 7th September, and the other is a civil birth - date of birth 31st August and registered on the 16th September. I would think the chances of two couples in the same town around the same time having the same names is minimal - especially with an uncommon surname like King.

The marriage record for Timothy King mentioned by Eamonn shows that he married an Anne Lynch on the 10th January 1909 in Limerick City - and that his father was Patrick King occupation Tailor.

Timothy's civil birth record (1st November 1886)  also shows father Patrick as Tailor - this entry is shown twice on the IrishGenealogy website by mistake - both records link to the same register image entry 244 on page 431, reference number 01953867.

for reference - some civil births located for children of Patrick King (the Tailor) and Kate/Catherine McDonald :

Mary Bridget King 8th May 1878
Sarah King born 8th[?] April 1880
John King 2rd June 1881
Sarah (2) King born August 1883 (the 1st Sarah seems to have died in 1880)
Patrick King 1st August 1885
[Timothy 1st November 1886]

This is so helpful. Thank you! We have Patrick King senior's birth year as being 1865 based on his age and year of death in Limerick. We also have a birth date for his wife Kate (McDonnell) King as being 17.9.68- hence one of the confusions as that would make her 10yrs old at the birth of her first child (Mary Bridget)? How likely is that I wonder? Are there 2 McDonnell/King families? Kate and Patrick went onto have another 5 children in Limerick. xx 

Hi, 
1901 census the King's are with their grandparents McDonnell's in Pound Street.
The actual document is not available.
I can't find the 2 marriages of the King and McDonnell you say about.
Timothy's marriage,
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Timothy in 1901...........it says he is with Joseph Crefar on the house and building list it is Creggan, it also says he was born in Limerick
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Newcastle/The…

1911  now it says Timothy was from Nenagh Tipperary.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002755835/

We drive down Pound Street every year, we stay in Nenagh for a few days.

I found something, sorry a bit sad.........a Sarah born 1880 died the same year.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Sarah born 1883
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Michael
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

This is Micheal's marriage It says his father is John, they were both Tailors and the father is deceased. 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…;

The Connel and ODonnell I think is a lost in typing from the original docs. sadly the cenus return forms are not available. I always look at the original docs.
 I think they are the same people. 
I cant find Patrick's or Kate's death records.
I will look again.
Margot

Ages given on deaths certs etc are very often inaccurate - so treat with caution. In general ages seem to be under estimated.

Based on a probable match for your King family on the 1911 census at Mary Street Limerick city - Patrick snr. reported that he was 54 (the actual form was filled by the enumerator as Patrick could only read, not write) so born about 1857 and the age he gave for Kate/Catherine was 50 so about 1861.

Here's a link to one of the sons born in Limerick city - Michael born 1892.

Patrick and Kate married in 1877 in Nenagh, both gave their ages as Full (i.e. 21 or over)

for reference Patrick died in Limerick (city) Workhouse 1922 reported age 57 as you mentioned, but this was given by a member of staff at the workhouse not a family member, his occuaption is Tailor so a good match for your Patrick (snr). His status has been noted as married, so Kate outlived him.  There's a good match for Kate's death in 1936 described "widow of a Tailor" died at George's Quay Limerick City, the same street as given for Patrick, her reported age is 68 which would put her birth at around 1868 (vs min. of 1856 based on marriage). The informant on Kate/Catherine's death is a Francis King of the same address at 4 George's Quay, so probably the youngest son shown on the 1911 censu.

Thank you all!  For me there's still a question around Kate's age : was she born in 1856 or 1868? Maybe her son Francis didn't know her age. Maybe it doesn't matter as the key aspect is that hopefully there's only one Kate McDonnell and Patrick King. It's great to see the names of the elder children. Sad about the death of   Sarah. Do the records show who the parents of Kate McDonnell or Patrick King are?? 

I wonder why Patrick ended up in the workhouse? There was a lot of political activity going on at that time (however I'm not aware of that side of my family being involved back then), maybe not much work for a Tailor? Maybe something domestic? Was it that he lived at George Quay and just had a pauper's end/funeral? 

The death cert shows that Patrick died from heart failure and Influenza, and probably ended up in the Workhouse Infirmary as would have been the only option for treatment for serious illness at the time.

I would suggest a year of birth for Kate as 1856 or maybe earlier - she quite possibly did not know known her exact year of birth/age not unusual at the time, if so her son could not have known either (I think it's very unlikely she could have married in 1877 age 9 i.e. born 1868, and given her age as 'full' without the priest noticing..)

The marriage cert for Pat and Kate (click on the image link on the IrishGenealogy record) shows their fathers as John King and Pat McDonnell - both Tailors. Based on the 1911 census, Pat was born in Limerick City and Kate somewhere in Co. Tipperary.. given the estimated dates of birth a search of Church Baptism records would be required as they were both born before the start of civil birth records in 1864.

Thank you! Patrick's birthdate on his death certificate in 1922 mentioned he was 57 ....again that doesn't tie in with other birth year information for him in the census etc. but maybe that's not unusual....as mentioned above...or maybe there's still another family. A family member found birth related info for Kate McDonell (of Pound Street) and it states that her parents are James McDonnell (no Pat mentioned) and Margaret Kelly.   So pleased that Patrick's Father is named as John King as family believe that ties in with family knowledge!! Really appreciate the time you've put in to help us. 

Hello Tess.

I am hoping you are still active. It would be great to connect to share information as I have started recently and I was lucky to be in a position to find out more than I expected.

Hi Timmy,

Where are you based? 

Kind regards, 

Tess 

Hello Tess.

I am based in Limerick. I am currently in the process of putting together details regarding the King family. It is a lot of work but a challenge I am enjoying.

I have already made amendments with the information gathered on another site.

One thing I have learned and even before I started this venture through a seasoned genealogist is that census details and official forms may not always reflect the true details of age so patience is the key to dig a little further to find out more.

Timmy.

Hi Timmy, the site keeps crashing. Hopefully this will get through. 

Are you my relative? Do you know Rena? 

Kind regards

Tess 

Hi Tess.

Rena would be Paddy's Daughter? She lives here in Limerick.

I would be related to you. My Grandad's name was Timmy (George's brother).

I find this site isn't the greatest to message as it doesn't seem to give an option to privately message.

Kind regards,

Timmy.

Hi Timmy, 

Good to meet you! ! 

If you send me your email address we can have a chat. 

Kind regards Tess Xx 

Hi Tess.

You can contact me on timmyking2021@gmail.com.

Kind regards,

Timmy :)