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LESSLIE line apparently Scottish Presbyterian Covenanters. Rev. James LESSLIE born 1690 in Ireland, the son of a Scottish Covenanter.(I am assuming this LESSLIE was born in Scotland, possibly Aberdeenshire about 1665.) Barrier James married Margaret SHEERER who was born 1695 (assuming she was Irish, location not known). Son George LESSLIE born 25 Nov 1727 in Coleraine, Londonderry, Ireland. The whole family of the Rev. James Lesslie immigrated to America in 1729 and finally arrived at Rowley, Essex, Massachusetts. My paternal line is solid Bohemian. My maternal line is half solid German and half British (southwestern England and Northern Ireland). This Lesslie line along with Sheerer are the only two possibilities. Not having much luck. Appreciate any assistance with this request. Thank you from North Carolina.

Susan

Monday 1st Jan 2018, 08:28PM

Message Board Replies

  • Susan,

    If the Rev James Leslie (b c 1690) was a Minister in Ireland, then he will have been “mainstream” Presbyterian, rather than Covenanter, because the first Covenanter (or Reformed Presbyterian, as they are also known) Minister in Ireland was the Rev. William Martin who was ordained in 1757. Prior to that the occasional itinerant Covenanter Minister visited Ireland from Scotland but otherwise Covenanters usually attended the mainstream Presbyterian church.

    The Presbyterian Historical Society has a record of each Minister’s career, from the outset of Presbyterianism in Ireland in the 1640s onwards. It’s known as “Fasti”. If you contact them they should be able to give you a little information about the Rev James Leslie. It usually covers ordination and places he served as well as a little family information. It should also tell you where he took his degree.

    http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com

    It was not possible for a Presbyterian Minister to obtain a theological degree in Ireland till the 1800s, so the Rev Leslie will have studied in Scotland at either Glasgow, Edinburgh, St Andrews or Aberdeen Universities. They keep records of their students and may also have a little information on him. Give them the approximate dates of his attendance. He many not have necessarily studied theology. Quite a few Ministers in those days qualified with Arts degrees. And not all took their degrees. (Matriculation involved an additional fee which not all were able to pay). Some left having completed the course but without matriculating. However this was not seen as a drawback to being ordained or pursuing other careers.

    You say that Rev Leslie married Margaret Sheerer. Judging by the 1901 census, the vast majority of Shearer/Sheerers in Ireland were Presbyterian or Church of Ireland, and lived in Counties Antrim & Down. So her background is likely to be Scottish the same as her husband’s. In Ireland today she’d be known as Ulster-Scots, in North America as Scotch-Irish. Her ancestors will have settled in Ireland some time in the 1600s.

    There are no Presbyterian records for Coleraine for the period you are interested in and so you are unlikely to find any record of their marriage or of the baptism of their son in 1727.

    I searched the PRONI e-catalogue (Public record office for Northern Ireland) to see if there is any mention of the Rev James Les(s)lie, but did not find any.

    According to the records of the Irish Society (the landlord for Coleraine), in 1738, a George Leslie rented quite a few properties in the town (which he will have sublet to others).  He was the only Leslie in the town at that period. I have no way of saying whether he was connected to your family though.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Saturday 6th Jan 2018, 08:43PM
  • Such a wonderful surprise to wake up to this morning! Full of useful information and suggestions to follow up on. Spreading the word over here about this site!! A most sincere thanks you for your response.

    Susan

    Sunday 7th Jan 2018, 12:47PM
  • Elwyn, I will be arriving in Belfast on July 5th this year with a genealogy oriented your group. We will spend three days at the Ulster Historical Foundation hearing researchers and doing some research. We will have time to visit the areas where our ancestors lived, mine being Coleraine. Question: when someone is listed as being born in Coleraine, Is that considered the town or parish? I would love to visit the area but since I don't have any more information about location at this time, any suggestions? Is their anyone I can contact to show me the area? Appreciate any input. Thank you. Susan Quillman, North

    Susan

    Saturday 8th Jun 2019, 12:50AM
  • Susan,

    Coleraine probably means the town rather than the parish.  People tended to use their town or, in a rural area, townland as their place of origin. Sometimes parishes were used, especially in religious records where it was a relevant piece of information, but in my experience giving your parish was less common. It can also depend on who you were giving the information to. If to someone with a knowledge of the area you would use your townland (or town name if you lived in a town) but if it was someone unfamiliar with Ireland, you would often just give the nearest big town.

    You are interested in information on Coleraine in the 1700s. There isn’t a huge amount of material but Coleraine Library has a genealogical section and should have some.  You could e-mail the library in advance and ask for suggestions:

    https://www.librariesni.org.uk/Libraries/Pages/Coleraine-Library.aspx

    Andrew Kane’s book “The Town Book of Coleraine” does contain maps and other detail on the town’s residents in the 1700s and 1800s. (It was the source of my information on the only Leslie listed there in 1738). There should be a copy in the library.  Andrew also does some work for the UHF and if he is around you could probably get a copy directly from him when you are there. You might also ask him for suggestions on a guide or other places to look in Coleraine.

    Coleraine is not a large town and you could walk round the area within the old walls (which is all that existed in the 1700s) in an hour. You can easily get there from Belfast by train and by bus. Trains and buses both leave from Great Victoria St station.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Sunday 9th Jun 2019, 09:39AM
  • As always, thanks! Doing my homework. My major bit of information comes from a small book I found at the New England Historical and Genealogical Society in Boston on a research trip for my brick wall New England ancestors: JAMES LESSLIE of Topsfield, Massachusetts and SOME OF HIS DESCENDENTS Including BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCHES OF Rev. George Lesslie and Rev. David Lesslie, D.D., published 1915. {Rev. George Lesslie, my maternal 4x great grandfather}.

    1. JAMES LESSLIE, the immigrant {to America}, father of Rev. George Lesslie, ..., was son of a Scotch covenanter, who lived in Coleraine, county Londonderry, Ireland. The name is now (1912) known in that vicinity. He came to this country in 1729, with wife Margaret (Sheerar), and located in Topsfield, where he lived until the last half of the year 1754... 'Father Lesslie' died 12 May, 1763. The date if mother Lesslie's death is not recorded. Pp. 7 & 8.

    First error: James Lesslie was not a Rev, his son George Lesslie (born 1727 in Coleraine, immigrated with family 1729 about 18 months old) was. Schooled in Ameria.

    Do not know when or where James Lesslie and wife Margaret Sheerar were born or married. Or when, if born in Scotland, they immigrated to Ulster.

    Possibilities:
    1670-1680s Covenanter families from Scotland seek refuge from persecution in Ulster.
    1690s As many as 50,000 Scots migrate to Ulster largely as a result of severe famine conditions in Scotland.

    Baby #5 George Lesslie born 1727 in Coleraine. All other 4 children said to be born in Ireland, so #4 about 1725, #3 about 1723, #2 about 1721, #1 about 1719, marriage about 1717 (all +/-). Margaret probably born about late 1690s, James about mid 1690s. Question: did James' father, a Scotch covenanter, migrate with his family, in the 1670s-1680s (children then born in Ireland) OR in the 1690s (children born in Scotland)??? And did he die in Ulster? Not talking about a long stay in Ulster: one generation before leaving for America in 1729. Maybe siblings of James Lesslie stayed? (See below in footnote about grandchildren.)

    Found this in a footnote in James Lesslie book:

    Super-registrar S. Lecky, wrote from Coleraine, Ire., on 25, 3, 1912: "The name {Lesslie} once resided in Castletoodry, near here {Coleraine}, but not now {1912}. Grandchildren {someone stayed behind! did he know this family??} are in Kilcanny, Coleraine. The name is mentioned in lists of aldermen and representatives in Parliament. Page 7, footnote. {Do you know what lists he is talking about?}

    Going to look at Lesslie/Leslie in 1901 & 1911 census for Coleraine, county Derry.

    Any suggestions or questions about assumptions?

    Again, thanks so much for your input.

    Susan

    Did find Edmond S. Lecky on both 1901 and 1911 census: Justice of Peace, farmer.

    Looked up both townlands, to the NNW and NW of Coleraine.

    Susan

    Sunday 9th Jun 2019, 08:19PM
  • Susan,

    You ask about “aldermen and representatives in Parliament”. Aldermen are usually the leading people in a town or community and are elected or appointed to sit on the local council, taking decisions about local affairs. In some countries they are called councillors. Representatives in Parliament means Members of Parliament (MPs we call them). So it sounds as though in 1912 the Superintendent Registrar knew of Leslies who had sat on the local council and also had been MPs for the area.   Obviously he didn’t say exactly when.

    Kilcanny is probably Kilcranny. There were just 3 households there in 1911, so presumably one of those families is the one the Registrar had in mind:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Bannbrook/Killcranny/

    All 3 families are Presbyterian with the Andersons being Reformed Presbyterian (ie Covenanter).  You would obviously need to trace these 3 families back a bit to see if any married a Leslie.

    Regarding Scots settling in Ireland, something like at least 100,000 Scots settled in Ireland in the 1600s. There was a huge influx in the 1500s and early 1600s around north east Co Antrim from the McDonald lands in Scotland (Islay, Jura, Colonsay, Gigha and Kintyre, all of which are immediately to the north of that part of Ireland). In addition others came as part of the Hamilton & Montgomery settlement around 1610. Others remained after the 10,000 strong Scots army in Carrickfergus was disbanded in the 1640s. Famine in the 1690s also led to a huge influx. Plus there were fleeing Covenanters too.  Somewhere between 10 and 20% of the entire Scottish population settled in Ireland at that time.  So much so that the vast majority of the population in Co Antrim are of Scottish origins, and there’s a huge number in Co Londonderry too. I think sometimes people fail to understand how close the 2 places are to each other. At the closest point in Ireland (Torr Head) Scotland is only 11 miles away. So a natural place for folk leaving Scotland to move to.

    By the early 1700s the Scots were dissatisfied with life in Ireland and started to move on again. Migration in significant numbers started in 1718. You can read a bit about emigration from around Coleraine in this link:

    https://www.ancestryireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The_1718_Migration.pdf

    Your conclusion that your family may not have lived in Ulster very long is likely to be correct. Possibly just 30 or 40 years. Conceivably less.

    I bumped into Andrew Kane today in PRONI. The UHF have a group here this week and he is assisting. I mentioned your interest in Coleraine. He thinks he’ll probably be working with your group so you should seek him out. He has some suggestions on sources for information about Coleraine in the 1700s that might interest you.

    I suspect that this is the Registrar who wrote the 1912 letter:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Coleraine/Adelaide_Avenue/589158/

    Looks as though he was also the clerk to the local workhouse (a fairly prestigious position). He was probably Superintendent Registrar as well. The one you found in Longfield is a farmer and a JP. (A Justice of the Peace is a respected member of the community who has certain official functions. They can sit in judgment in Magistrates Courts and they can issue search warrant etc. It’s not a paid post but they get a honorarium. Unlikely for a farmer in Longfield to also be a Registrar in Coleraine, in my opinion.)

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 10th Jun 2019, 05:23PM
  • Oh man, more goodies! Will work on those families in Kilcranny to see if I can find a Leslie somewhere.

    Thanks for finding the correct S. Lecky. Makes more sense. Just learning my way around the 1901 and 1911 census.

    Do hope Andrew Kane will be available during the three days we will be at PRONI, Monday-Wednesday, July 8-10. Will be interested in what he has to offer. If you are wandering about during that time, PLEASE stop by and introduce yourself. Would love to meet you in person.

    As far as Scotland being close, on Saturday the 6th, my cousin and I are taking the ferry over for High Tea at Glenapp Castle. I have been to Scotland four times, Highlands my soul place, and look forward to touching ground for a wee bit. It has rained here the past four days so lots of research time but sun is back out and off to physical therapy.

    Thanks so much for your input. Truly appreciate. Susan

    Susan

    Tuesday 11th Jun 2019, 05:55PM
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    Susan,

    Sadly, I won’t be around during your visit next month. I’ll be up in Lewis & Harris in the Western Isles for a week or so. So we won’t be able to meet up.  However I’ll put you in touch with Andrew and you can hopefully meet him. E-mail me on Ahoghill@irelandxo.com and I’ll give you his contact details.

    To give you a flavour of the area where your ancestors lived, I have attached a photo of Scotland as seen from near the Giant’s Causeway (close to Coleraine). In the middle distance is Rathlin Island. Ownership of this was long disputed between Ireland and Scotland. In the end the matter was supposedly resolved by the fact that there are no snakes on Rathlin. Ireland has no snakes, whereas Scotland does. So therefore it was Irish. Straightforward enough.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 12th Jun 2019, 06:10PM
  • Gorgeous! Will be spending some time around the Giant's Causeway. Looked up the Reformed Presbyterian Anderson family in Killcranny. The Head Anderson died in 1933 and left £s to Rev James Renwich Wright, a Reformed Presbyterian minister. There are two, a Jr and Sr, both alive at that time but Jr not yet a Rev., which I also looked up. Jr came to America in 1939 as a student and was located on our 1940 census as a student/lodger/single/alien. Also located his obit. Was wondering if you have any information about a particular church Sr preached at during the early 1900s where the Andersons probably were members? Also any information about Sr Rev Wright. Clues! Clues! Other suggestions where to go with the Rev. Wright and churches that members in Coleraine might have attended. Another question: How about obituaries in Ireland? We're they usual? When did they become popular? How does one access them now? Is there a particular website? 

     

    Susan

    Susan

    Thursday 13th Jun 2019, 02:06PM
  • Susan,

    I assume this is the head Anderson that you refer to:

    Anderson Henry O'Hara of The Baths Portstewart county Londonderry baths proprietor died 19 May 1933 Probate Londonderry 22 December to reverend James Renwick Wright reformed presbyterian minister and John McDowell builder. Effects £133 5s. 11d.

    If so, the wording means “probate was granted to James Renwick Wright” etc etc, not that he inherited in the will.  So JRW & JMcD were just the executors.  You would need to get a copy of the will from PRONI to find out who the beneficiaries were. It’s possible that JRW was one but you can’t infer that from the abstract.

    You ask which Reformed Presbyterian Church the Anderson family would have attended. I think it was Ballyclabber in Coleraine. That seems to be the nearest:

    https://www.rpc.org/ballyclabber/

    The RP Church has a historical section and should be able to give you a history of their past Ministers. Send an e-mail to the contact section on the website.

    A copy of Ballyclabber’s baptism & marriage records is in PRONI. They start in 1862.

    This looks to be JRW in the 1911 census:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newry_South/Church_Street__part_of/256635/

    And in 1901 with his parents and siblings:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dunminning/Craigs/939879/

    He died in 1964. Again, his will should be in PRONI:

    Wright, James Renwick of Dunvaron 27 Charles Street Ballymoney county Antrim retired reformed presbyterian minister died 1 January 1964 Probate Belfast 18 March to Jeanie Rosa Marie Marguerite Holmes married woman. Effects £3838 8s.

    The Newry Reporter of 9.8.1906 mentions JRW attending the inordination of a fellow Minister at Ballenon in Co Down, and says that JRW was Minister at Ballybay at that point. He appears to have moved to Ballyclabber in 1911, following the death of the previous incumbent. (Belfast Newsletter 4.3.1911).

    JRW’s death was reported in the Belfast Telegraph 2.1.1964. It says he was brought up in Cullybackey and began his ministry with Creevagh congregation in Co. Monaghan. He was Minister at Ballyclabber for 44 years before retiring in 1956. He is survived by 2 sons, both in the ministry and a daughter. (I wouldn’t be surprised if the daughter was Jeanie Holmes mentioned in the probate abstract).

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 13th Jun 2019, 06:34PM
  • 1. Will check out Anderson will (1933) at PRONI

    2. Sent email to Ballyclabber RPC for historical information.

    3. Will look at baptisms and marriages for Ballyclabber RPC at PRONI beginning 1862.

    4. Got JRW on both 1901 and 1911 census.

    5. Will check out will for THE at PRONI 1964.

    6. Is it possible to send me link to two newspaper articles r/t JRW ( Belfast Newsletter and Telegraph)?

    7. Appreciate any information on obituaries and how to locate. 

    8. As a Super-Registrar, how big an area would be be in charge of? 

    beautiful weekend here so far. Getting outside to put in my yard. Taking a wee bit of a break from research. Related all you have graciously shared with me with my first cousin Patti Weyhrauch who will be coming with me to Northern Ireland next month. Looking forward to hearing back from you as always. Susan

    Susan

    Saturday 15th Jun 2019, 11:04PM
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    Susan,

    For obituaries you would need to search the local newspapers. I have a subscription to the British Newspapers archive (which has a lot of Irish papers on it). There is also an Irish newspapers site and findmypast and Ancestry also have some Irish newspapers on their sites. They are all pay to view or subscription.

    Here’s a definition of a Superintendent Registrar’s area:

    https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Ireland-civil-registration.html

    So Mr Lecky had responsibility for records in the Coleraine Poor Law Union area. You can see all the townlands in that district by using this website:

    https://thecore.com/seanruad/

    Enter Londonderry as the county and Coleraine as the PLU and it will list all the townlands covered. There were 5 PLUs so he was responsible for a fifth of the county.

    I have attached a copy of the 1964 obituary but the 1906 article is too large. It’s an entire column length and too much to download. However it’s all about the new Minster in Ballenon and his inauguration. Beyond telling us that Rev Wright was there and chaired the proceedings there's really nothing else about him personally. The archives are full of mentions of the Rev Wright (senior) but mostly it’s reports of meetings he attended or forthcoming religious events at which he was invited to speak. He travelled around a bit. I see one for him speaking to Airdrie RP church (in Scotland) in the Airdrie & Coatbridge Advertiser of 22.8.1931.

    I found his son’s inauguration too, in Dromara, Co Down. I have attached it. Unfortunately I haven’t noted the newspaper or date and now can’t find it again.

    His brother Hugh Wright of Winnipeg married Dorothy MacAulay 17 Landscape Terrace Belfast in Grosvenor Rd Belfast RP church. The bride wore a gown of ivory stain and had a tuile veil. The bridesmaids wore lilac taffeta and carried sweet pea to tone. Best man was his brother J. Renwick Wright. The guests were entertained afterwards at the Merrythought Café (Ulster Menu Company).  Source: Northern Whig 16th June 1938.

    The Ballymena Weekly Telegraph for 28th May 1938 reported the death of Alexander Wright’s father. Copy attached. As I say there are dozens of brief references to Rev Wright in the papers.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 17th Jun 2019, 03:57AM
  • Thanks, as always. So, SR Lecky would have had responsibility for over 350+ townlands. Bigger territory than I thought. But he seemed to know where these Leslie grandchildren were.

    The source bibliography for James Lesslie and family's immigration record listed at Ancestry:

    [ULSTER GENEALOGICAL & HISTORICAL GUILD]. "Interest List." In Ulster Genealogical & Historical Guild, no. 9 (1986). pp. 1-42.

    Source Citation
    Place: Rowley, Massachusetts: Year: 1729; Page Number: 20.

    Does any of this look familiar to you? Any assistance would be helpful.

    Raining cats and now dogs here so good to do Genealogy.

    Susan

    Susan

    Tuesday 18th Jun 2019, 10:14PM
  • The Linenhall Library in Belfast has some editions of the Ulster Genealogical & Historical Guild’s publications. I am not clear whether they have no 9. (I can see some numbered 40 + in their catalogue ). I would e-mail them and ask whether they have edition no 9:

    https://lhlibapp.qub.ac.uk/search~S1

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 20th Jun 2019, 10:28PM
  • Email sent. Again, appreciate this suggestion. Will be interesting to see if this will require a visit to their library. Thanks, Elwyn.

    Susan

    Friday 21st Jun 2019, 11:21PM
  • Elwyn, was playing around with Find A Grave and put in Leslie in Londonderry, Coleraine first then just Londonderry. Some Leslies in Ballymoney, buried in Kilraughts Old Church Graveyard in Ballymoney. Seems most of burials are Presbyterian or Reformed Presbyterian Church. Ballymoney is just on the other side of Coleraine so close by. Wonder about boundaries. Did they move about like ours did here in America? There is a book written in 2014 by Dorothy Arthur, Kilraughts Old Church Graveyards. The 4th in a series of books on the old graveyards in North Antrim. Not available here. Have you heard anything about the book? Supposed to have some family tree and history included. Would nlove to get my hands on the book! Earliest LESLIE at Kilraughts graveyard was a James Leslie b.1779 d. 07 Mar 1863. Can't find out earliest probate records that are either available online OR elsewhere. I am guessing that there is a Reformed Presbyterian Church in Ballymoney?? Nursing bronchitis this weekend so not feeling like housecleaning or yardwork. But perfect for genealogy, of course. Eleven more days. Always more to do. Appreciate your assistance and of course, ANY insights and suggestions. Need to start making a list of physical places I should visit. And possible contacts. Thanks, Susan

    Susan

    Sunday 23rd Jun 2019, 11:19PM
  • Susan,

    Yes some people did move about a bit. Farmers didn’t. You don’t spend 30 years improving a farm and then move to a new one to start all over again if you can avoid it. However labourers and weavers moved all the time to follow available work. However labourers and weavers usually couldn’t afford a gravestone so they can be quite hard to trace.

    Yes I know Dorothy Arthur well. We are both members of the North of Ireland Family History Society.  She was brought up in the Ballymoney area and has extensive knowledge of many families there.  She has published a number of books on graveyards in the Ballymoney area. You can order her books through this website:

    https://www.booksireland.org.uk/author-editor/dorothy-arthur

    Or you can contact her on this link:

    https://ballymoneygraveyard.com/research/

    If you have any problems contacting her, let me know. I have her private e-mail address (which I can’t give out without her permission obviously) but I could pass her a message. Coleraine Library should also have copies of her books in the Local History section.

    There is or was a Reformed Presbyterian church in Ballymoney. I don’t think it’s still functioning. Here’s what the PRONI catalogue says:

    “[There would appear to have been two meeting houses in the early 19th century – at Kilraughts and Dervock; Ballymoney meeting house was built in

    1829]. PRONI hold:

    Register of members by society with baptisms, marriages, deaths and removals including emigration, c.1835-44 (for Dervock and Ballymoney, but also records details for Ballymoney Society from 1804); register containing session reports, 1914-81, admissions,1914-75, with lists of members (the earliest ones recording details of deaths and emigration),1914-88; call and attestation of call to the Rev. John Lynd signed by office bearers and members, 1886; committee minutes, 1890-1956; session minutes, 1845- 66 and 1886-1931, with list of elders, 1891 and 1893 which include details of their death; stipend account book with names, 1858-1906 with a list of members for 1868 and 1877”.

    PRONI hold a copy of the above records.  A personal visit there is required to view them.

    The Reformed Presbyterian/Covenanter Church in Ireland doesn’t have any baptism or marriage records before the early 1800s (for the reasons I explained in my post of 6th Jan 2019) and they weren’t very good at keeping them for many years after that. Lots of missing records, or records never kept in the first place. And in general Presbyterians don’t keep burial records so nothing to be found there either.

    Regarding burials it’s probably worth explaining that whilst there are some churches with their own exclusive graveyards, many were shared by anyone who lived in the general area. Many Presbyterian churches didn’t have graveyards and so they used the Church of Ireland or other graveyards. Many graveyards are shared by all denominations. And people weren’t always buried at the church they attended. Many had family plots some distance away (perhaps where ancestors had lived) and so were buried there. 

    Regarding early probate records, the vast majority of pre 1858 probate files were lost when the Public Record Office in Dublin caught fire during the Irish civil war in 1922. A few wills survived the fire and there are duplicate copies of some in PRONI but in general 95% were lost. There are some index books which were kept elsewhere. You can check for any early wills on the PRONI names index.

    https://apps.proni.gov.uk/ProniNames_IE/SearchPage.aspx

    In most cases where there’s a record of a will, it says “no other record exists” meaning the actual file went up in flames, but you do get the odd one where a duplicate copy or a transcript has survived. (Some duplicates were kept in solicitors offices and eventually handed to PRONI when their usefulness had long gone).

    As an example, the name search site has this: John Lesslie, Coleraine, probate granted 1702. “The original documents referred to in this index DO NOT exist. No further information, other than that recorded above, has survived”.

    Search under Leslie too as that’s the more common spelling in Ireland.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Monday 24th Jun 2019, 08:56PM
  • Elwyn, sent email to Dorothy Arthur. Used your name, thank you. Excited to hear back from her. Linen Hall couldn't offer more. Will check out Coleraine Library. So much to do before next Thursday when I will be leaving for Dublin. Hardest will be culling genealogy information. Thank you so much for your valuable input. Much appreciated!! Susan

    Susan

    Wednesday 26th Jun 2019, 04:04AM
  • Elwyn, in Dublin, returning home Wednesday. Met Andrew at PRONI and was a big help. Unfortunately he wasn't available Tuesday and Wednesday he was tagged to help someone else. But he was kind enough to meet us in Coleraine on Saturday. We had purchased his book before then and had read it through. Wonderful book! Had hoped to spend some time at the Coleraine Library but was not able to do so. Have talked to Andrew about doing some more research through UHF. He has so much information on Coleraine downloaded already. Will still keep at it on my end. Want to thank you so much for your input and connecting us to Andrew. Susan

    Susan

    Monday 15th Jul 2019, 07:28PM
  •  

    Susan,

    Glad to have been of help.

     

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Tuesday 16th Jul 2019, 06:30PM
  • Hello Susan & Elwyn,  My name is Peggy Slack Stull and my great grandfather is a Leslie. The beginning of my line is John Leslie, b. 1761 in County Antrim, Ireland, and died 1835 in Lawrence County, PA. He arrived in Carlisle, Cumberland County, PA in 1785. He  came with a brother George, and two cousins, John Sheriff and John Anderson. The three Johns mariied Neal sisters, my John to Nancy Neal, John Sheriff to Martha Neal, and John Anderson  to Pollie Neal. We have wondered how the Andersons and the Sheriffs tied together. I am not as good at research as you two, but this gave me the first glimmer of hope at finding who my John's parents were!!! I am so hoping you can help me. I am going to delve into what you two have on your page here, and I thank you so much. Let me know if there is any way that I can help you? I can post the history story from an old Leslie history book we have on our line. My john had other siblings as well. John was the oldest, and his brothers were George, James, Henry, and there were two sisters, Nancy, & Mary. It says in our records that his brother James was born in Colerain, not Antrim as came down our line from John. Anyway, I can give you anything I have if I know if there is anything that can help you both. We are Clan Leslie, and in the Sept of Bartholomew, and said to be descended from Alexander Leslie, 1st Earl of Leven. It drives me cray that we can have all this ancient history, then our John in 1761, but oh that space in between!! It is what our Leslies so desire to know and finally connect. Thank you so much for your time, and I hope you do see this!! Take care and be safe, Sincerely, Peggy

     

     

     

    Tuesday 14th Apr 2020, 07:31PM
  • Peggy,

    You face the same basic problem as Susan which is that there are almost no church records in Co Antrim for someone born in 1761, and very few other records of their life in Ireland up to 1785 when John Leslie left.

    Regarding James being born in Coleraine, not Antrim, it’s worth commenting that Coleraine is very close to Antrim. The county border now is just outside the town. Coleraine is divided by the River Bann. Originally everything in the town west of the Bann was in Co. Londonderry (at that time called Co. Coleraine) and everything east in Co. Antrim.  In the early 1600s, for easier administration, it was decided to redraw the boundary so the whole town was in the one county.  The county was also renamed at the same time, changing from Co. Coleraine to Co. Londonderry.

    So someone born just outside Coleraine could be born in Co Antrim, though they might give Coleraine as their home, especially in the USA where an individual townland in Ireland that no-one would have heard of was probably meaningless.

    You ask how the Anderson & Sheriff families connect with the Leslies.  They may have all lived close to each other in Ireland. Anderson is a very common name here. There are 2381 of them in the 1901 census of Antrim & Londonderry. Sheriff is not so common though. In the 1901 census there’s just 3 families, and one of them was a shipyard worker from Scotland.

    Part of the 1831 census for Co. Londonderry has survived and includes the parish of Coleraine. There were just 2 Leslie households in it (both Presbyterian). One lived in Meeting House Lane in the town:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Coleraine/Coleraine_Town_Meeting_House_La/133/

    The other lived in Winnyhaw (more commonly Windy Hall). Windy Hall is on the southern outskirts of the town of Coleraine. Today it’s a residential area though in 1831 it would have been farmland.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Coleraine/Winnyhaw/6/

    I mentioned Andrew Kane’s book on Coleraine, compiled from records held by the Honourable Irish Society. It mentions several Leslies and a Sherriff.  George Leslie is recorded in 1738 as holding 6 acres, 2 roods 37 perches of land (just over 6 and a half acres). The location isn’t given. He appears again under the list of town tenants 1738-58 as leasing a good slate house, two storeys with garrets. He appears to have let that to tenants named James Dodd and later John MacDougal).

    Another entry records James Hutchison, Patrick Keith, Isaac Cochrane, John Smith & William Sherriff as tenants or occupants of “An old slate house, two storeys high with garrets.” Samuel Sherriff, Joseph Wilson & Samuel Paterson as holding a property in the town on a 3 lives lease (in this case the King’s first 3 sons) granted on 29.9.1774. (If you want an explanation of that I can do so).

     James Leslie is also listed again with a lease granted on 29.9.1774.

    The book also details a property on Church St, Coleraine. “Perpetually renewable lease granted to John Smith & Samuel Sheriff and Lord Mark Kerr on 1st July 1774 at £23-5-2pa with associated acre 101. Now held by Joseph Wilson & Samuel Patterson, executors of the will of Lord Mark Kerr, and Mr Sheriff. This trust is currently the subject of a dispute which has delayed the granting of a new lease.”

    The late Lord Mark Kerr was the husband of the Countess of Antrim. So his estate was the owner of this land. (At one time the McDonnells, Earls of Antrim, owned a quarter of the county, including most of the land in north Antrim).

    Several Andersons and Sheriffs in the tithe applotment records for Coleraine of 1827. The tithes were a tax on land, so these were lists of people with land. Mainly farmers.  There are no Leslies so that indicates they didn’t have any land. So the ones in the 1831 census are perhaps tradesmen or labourers, or servants.

    One Sheriff in Dundoan in the 1831 census (mistranscribed as Shurff):

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Coleraine/Dundovan/22/

    If you are looking for some general background reading on Coleraine in the 1700s, you might find  “Coleraine in Georgian Times” by the Rev Mullin (publ 1977) interesting. You get general descriptions of life. For example: “ Arthur Young made a tour of Ireland in 1776. He took a special interest in emigration” Upon going over to Ireland I determined to omit no opportunities of discovering the cause and extent of this emigration. The spirit of emigrating in Ireland appeared to be confined to tow circumstances, the Presbyterian religion, and the linen manufacture. I heard of few emigrants except amongst the manufacturers of that persuasion. The Catholics never went, they seemed not only tied to the country but almost to the parish in which their ancestors lived.”

    Or: “ A French émigré, Dr Latocnaye, visited Ireland in 1796 and spent three or four days with Mr Richardson of Somerset, who received him warmly. The Frenchman said that on Sundays the countrywomen of Coleraine resembled those of Scotland near Montrose. They dressed neatly and had a red cloak over their shoulders. Anyone who saw them would not have thought he was in Ireland.”

    Most of that part of Ireland was very heavily settled by Scots and so was markedly different to other parts of Ireland. A Presbyterian Minister brought up in Aghadowey, Co Derry (near Coleraine) wrote this of his childhood in the 1820s: “Aghadowey had originally been settled by a Scotch immigration and I found that my new neighbours spoke as pure Scotch as a man might hear in any part of Ayrshire.”[1]

    Describing his youth in Ballycahan, parish of Dunboe, again near Coleraine, a local farmer said: “Over a space of 15 to 20 miles from east to west, and about the same from north to south, Scottish surnames, a broad Scottish dialect and an almost universally diffused Presbyterianism indicated the title of the people to call themselves “Scotch”. Episcopalians were few and a Roman Catholic as rare as a black swan.”[2]

     

    [1] Autobiography of Thomas Witherow 1824 – 1890 Page 25. Ballinascreen Historical Society 1990

    [2] A Kennedy chronicle – Biography of Alexander Kennedy of Ballycahan 1818 – 1885 by Hugh Alexander Hezlett (Coleraine library)

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 15th Apr 2020, 10:50AM
  • I omitted the link to the tithes for the parish of Coleraine from the above post:

    http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/coleraine-pari…

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 15th Apr 2020, 10:53AM

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