Richard Austin and Margaret Hoban

Duplicate message. See related message and response  https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland/limerick/ballybricken-limerick/messag…

Hello,

Trinity Without (known locally as 'Ballybricken')

JOHN AUSTIN bap. 11.02.1849. 

Godparents: Michael Cummins +  Anastatia?? Veal.

Mother's name is given as Margaret HOGAN. (Such mistakes are not uncommon, as the mother, not yet having being 'churched', would not have been personally present at the baptism).

Trinity Without.

PHILIP+ THOMAS  bap. 28.12.1847.

Godparents: Thomas + Mary ??  (difficult to decipher...Kirwan?)

Address: Difficult to decipher...possibly Barrack Street.

Mother's name is given as Mary HOGAN.

Regards

Hello again! Re Austin/Hogan, Waterford

On Irish genealogy.ie

Trinity Without May 1899

Marriage of FRANCIS AUSTIN, Little Patrick Street, Waterford.

Father: Thomas Austin.

Father's Occupation: Glassblower.

to MARY BRIEN, May Lane, Waterford.

FRANCIS died in 1946, aged 80....Record also on Irish genealogy.ie.

1901 + 1911 Census. FRANCIS' place of birth given as London, England.

Regards

Gosh, Davern,

That's wonderful! 

Francis, then was possibly Richard's brother and possibly Thomas was Richard's father. Odd that Francis was born in London, England, though. 

I always used to wonder whether 'Austin' was an Irish name... it didn't seem to be... so maybe they weren't Irish on the Austin side.

If they were from London originally I wonder what propelled him towards Waterford in Ireland? The Irish diaspora was surely because prospects in Ireland were so limited and jobs hard to find that folk emigrated to the USA or to England and Scotland.

However, this is a whole new area of research so thank you for your magnificent efforts! 

Gilly

Oh... looking at the dates... Francis is unlikely to have been Richard's brother... but possibly a step-brother. Lots of research still to do then!

Gilly

HELLO GILLY,

Only a thought but maybe FRANCIS AUSTIN was 'your'  RICHARD AUSTIN's  grandson?

FRANCIS' father was a THOMAS AUSTIN.

RICHARD AUSTIN had twin sons, Philip + THOMAS, born in Waterford in 1847.

As you mentioned, the family were living in the UK by 1853.

FRANCIS AUSTIN was born in London, UK, circa 1866/67...would make his father, (twin) THOMAS AUSTIN, 20 years of age at the time of birth.

Interesting is, that FRANCIS' father, THOMAS,  was a "GLASBLOWER", as RICHARD AUSTIN worked as a "GLASS MAKER".

If  RICHARD AUSTIN  was possibly from England, I wonder if it was the renowned Waterford Crystal industry that brought him to Waterford? Craftsmen were brought in from the UK...good wages made the move attractive!  I read on the Waterford Crystal website.. "By 1851 the production ceased and many workers went to Belfast, where the industry struggled on...". Workers also moved to Dublin where the Pugh's manufactured flint glass until 1896.

RICHARD AUSTIN also lived in Dublin, so it would sort in with this information.

It's possibly worth looking up FRANCIS AUSTIN's church marriage record (irishgenealogy.ie only has the Civil record), as  1899 Trinity Without records will list the name of both parents. With that, a search can be made for the marriage of FRANCIS' parents in England. The marriage record of Francis' parents will have the name of THOMAS' parents...you may be lucky and the father is 'your' RICHARD AUSTIN :-)

Regards + Good Luck!

It seems I've got an awful lot of research to do here... currently scratching my head at it all, to be honest. I know that Richard and Margaret were in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1861... with four children: Mary 1846 Dublin, John 1849 Waterford, Johanna 1854 Newcastle upon Tyne and William 1856 Warrington. Of Anne 1844 Waterford, Philip and Thomas 1847 Waterford, James 1851 Waterford there is no sign... so these are the ones that I'll need to find. Richard in that census claimed to be from Waterford, as did Margaret (nee Hoban), his wife.

They had another child, Margaret Anne born in Warrington in 1864.

By 1871 the family were living in Warrington, Lancashire/Cheshire border with Johanna, William and Margaret Anne and it was only in the June of the following year when Richard died, in Warrington, and his death was registered by son, John.

So, I need to find out what happened to Philip, Thomas and James....and then start to unravel the rest of the story. There are a number of possibilites...they were, originally, left in Ireland with extended family or one of them didn't survive. I can't see that Richard and Margaret would have returned to Ireland as they were moving around the UK in search of work. Newcastle, although a glass producing city, fell out of favour and St Helens and its surrounds in Lancashire was up and coming. IF Thomas eventually made his way to London I'll have to search for him... but I wonder why Francis went back to Waterford...was it for the glass work?

So many questions... I'll have to get my thinking cap on!

Thanks for your pointers...most invaluable.

Gilly

Ah, I see...so no sign of the twins + James on the 1861 Census. Certainly there's the possibility  they remained behind in Waterford with family. Unfortunately, civil registration of deaths in Ireland didn't start until 1864, so there would be no records for these children if they died as infants.

Yes, it makes one wonder, if FRANCIS is THOMAS' son, what made him move to Ireland? Usually it was the other way around! Maybe then FRANCIS AUSTIN is not related...just a coincidence?

Good luck with you search!

Thank you, Davern, for all your thoughts and help with this part of my family. You've given me lots to think about and to chase up...it's possible that I'll be able to get some answers as I dig around. It's also possible I'll come up with more questions!

Thank you once again,

Gilly