Burgess from Templemore, Tipperary

Hi, that was an easy one.
Bessie on her death record
Number 215
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…
In the 1901 Census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Templemore/S…
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001169380/
in the 1911 Census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Templemore_U…
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003333848/

I hope this is a help
Margot

Thank you Margot,

Yes, I have those but that is all that I have unfortunately. And because Bessie/Elizabeth had dementia and no family nearby there are no details of family on her death certificate. I'm not sure how to get beyond this point. 

Thank you for your help!

Hi, I did another search.
you say John went to live in Cork.
This is the family in 1901, John has passed on, BUT, I checked the eldest boy Thomas b 1872c this is hhis Birth record.
 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03307/2211961.pdf

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Corkbeg/Aghada_Lower/1131587/

In 1911, there are 4 still in the same place.
 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=&census_year=1911&surname=burgess&firstname=&county19011911=Cork&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&parish=&ward=&barony=&townland=Aghada&houseNumber=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

The children listed as Coyle are Nephews and Neices. All born in the United States.
So then I went to familysearch.org and searched for Coyle and Mother's maiden name Burgess. Her name was the same as her Mother Albina or Alvina, this is the results. Ignore the bottom Anna b 1866. Not yours.
 

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Acoyle%20%2Bbirth_place%3Aamerica%20%2Bmother_surname%3Aburgess

Sorry but I think I opened up the world for you.
This is Michaels Birth records, the mothers maiden name is clearer on this one it is Bride.
Oh God, I am sorry this is his death record.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1932/04874/4318500.pdf

Let me know what you think.
Margot

Hello Margot!

Thankyou very much! I've had a wonderful day searching through and collecting some birth, some marriage and some death records from the https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/ website. I was not previously aware of this site so it was most helpful.

Yes - you found the correct family for john Burgess in Aghada Cork. He and Abigail had a very large family with 16 children in total. Incredibly many of those never married or perished whilst young, such that I've found only one family line still carrying on the Burgess surname. I would love to find it otherwise.  I have previously tracked many of the connections for the members of the Burgess family who emigrated to the USA and continue to make discoveries there. As far as I can tell it was only the girls who emigrated. I do know that in the early 1920s two of the Coyle girls (next generation) - Albinia born 1899 and Angelina born 1902, moved back to the Lower Aghada and Midleton areas and I think that they perhaps stayed there. One of the death records I found today with your help was for Elizabeth Burgess born 1874 who died in 1937 in lower Aghada and her niece Angela Allan was present. I'm wondering if this was Angelina Coyle. I can find nothing more about her. The names get seriously confusing as Angelina went by Anna and perhaps Angela. Albinia was sometimes Albina, Abigail, Abby - it depended on the season I think -for several generations! 

What I really am trying to do is to go back in time - to find the parents and birth place of John Joseph Burgess and Elizabeth Burgess who were born supposedly in Templemore Tipperary in the  1838 to 1942 period. They must have had parents but who were they and where are their births recorded? They were roman catholics, able to read and write, and I can find no source for them. Was it common for children of this era to be reading and writing? Was there an orphanage in Templemore? If their father was in the military associated with the Templemore barracks, would there be records of their birth kept there? I'm baffled as to where to look next to go back in this family line to their parents. I've been trawling through the catholic registers in Templemore in this era but as yet, have not located a Burgess to consider. 

Any help in this direction would be greatly appreciated, as is the help you have given thus far,

Thank you!

Hi,
​I searched........the Tithe records. (Tax and Rents paid) with just BURGESS and got these. So in this area till 1826.

Surname   Forename   Townland/Street    Parish    County  Year

Burgess    ​John              Cloghprior              Cloghprior  Tipperary  1825

Burgess   Manley           Priorpark                Cloghprior   Tipperary  1825

Burgess  John                Carneywoodlands  Cloghprior   Tipperary  1825

Burgess   John              Shesheraghscanlan  Finnoe      Tipperary   1826

This area comes under the Parish of Monsea.
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0789

​the next Tax/Rent ecords were in Griffiths Valuation. the same areas as above.
​None in Templemore. maybe they moved there at some time.
​Deaths were not registered until 1864 and not compulsory till 1870, so we have to rely on church records if they kept a death record. Most didn't.
It must have been Elizabeth with the Templemore connection most other arstill in Finnoe and Clogprior in the 1901 and 1911 Census.
Margot

Sorry about the delay in reply Margot, thank you for your hard work in searching. 

I have been wondering about that particular area of Tipperary too including the Monsea parish as there is little to help me down around Templemore. We have a very old letter from one of John's sons telling us that John Burgess was a Tipperary lad from Templemore which is why I have pursued that line but there is nothing to say that he was born elsewhere and then later moved to Templemore. 

I shall look into the Monsea records more closely and see what it shows up. As John named his first son Edmond, perhaps my clue will be and Edmond Burgess somewhere in Monsea or elsewhere in Tipperary. Perhaps i'll never solve this mystery but I'll keep trying. 

Thank you for the assistance!