Patrick Horan and Michael Moran died in railway accident

Possible candidates for Patrick Horan:   

 1901 Census: 

House 11 Glentavraun, Patrick Horan aged 1, grandson of head, Michael (wife Bridget) 

House 45 Glentavraun, Patrick Horan aged 7, son of head, James (wife Sabina) 

Carrownlacka, Kilmore, Patrick Horan aged 6, son of head, John (wife Bridget) 

1911 Census:

House 42 Glentavraun, Patrick Horan aged 18, son of head, James (wife Sabina)

House 45 Glentavraun, Patrick Horan aged 14, son of head, John (wife Anne)  

 Corgarriff, Kilmovee, Patrick Horan aged10, son of head, Anne

Clooneirin, Kilmovee, Patrick Horan aged 17, son of head, Mary

Carrownlacka, Patrick Horan aged 16, son of head, john (wife Bridget)

Skeheen, Kilmovee, Patrick Horan aged 10, son of head, James (wife Bridget)

There are probably others.

Possible candidates for either Michael Moran:

1901 Census:

Sonvolaun, Michael Moran, no age, grandson of head, Dominick (wife Honor). Also in household were Dominick's son, Andrew, daughter-in-law, Kate + daughter, Bridget.

House 83 Glentavraun, Michael Moran aged 3, son of head, John (wife Catherine).

1911 Census:

House 61 Glentavraun, Michael Moran aged 13, son of head, John (wife Catherine)

Tullyganny, Michael Moran aged 6, son of head, Michael (wife Bridget)

House 9 Glentavraun, Michael Moran aged 5, grandson of head, Thomas Moran. Also in household were Michael & Bridget, son & daughter-in-law of Thomas, + 5 more grandchildren.

( The last was a bit young. His mother may have been a relative of my ancestors, as might another Horan family in that townland.)

Patrick Horan and the 2 Michael Morans may have been elsewhere at census-time.

Maggie May:

I am the parish liaison for Kilmovee parish but I live in the States. I will try to contact someone in the area. For Patrick Horan, I would lean towards the house 11 Glentavraun or the one in Skeheen. Don't have a good idea on Michael Moran.

Roger McDonnell

Thank-you, Roger. I'm hoping that there will be knowedge locally about the accident.

Ages were taken from their tombstone. Newspaper reports weren't consistent about ages.

I looked at birth registrations too. There were a lot.

The men had gone to Yorkshire or Lincolnshire for the potato harvest that year. 2 other people were injured.

Maggie May:

Not sure I will here back from Kilmovee but I did some sleuthing on Find My Past. My subscription does not allow me to see full articles but I can see a brief segment. One of the papers mentioned a younger brother Dominick Moran age 23 to the older Michael Moran. I searched the 1911 census and found this family in Glentavraun. (You had mentioned this family in house 61 in your last comment) This leaves us with two more to go!

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Urlaur/Glentavraun/73…

Roger

Maggie May:

I had access to a Belfast paper and they mentioned that the two Michael Morans were cousins and another article said that one of the Michael Morans was from Kilkenny. Not sure that is correct.

I have to believe that Patrick Horan was also from Glentavraun. Maybe house 45 or house 10.

http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Urlaur/Glentavraun/

Roger

Maggie May,

Are you in the Mayo Genealogy Group on Facebook? There was a discussion some time ago on this story and the general consensus was that they were from the Glentavraun area (locally known as Glann). Horan and Moran were/are common names around there. It was a very sad story. Nobody in the discussion in the Mayo Group had known the story, just found it online like you did. The Kilkenny mentioned in one of the reports should read Kilkelly. An address for Glann would say: Glann, Kilkelly, Co Mayo. Hope that helps.

Lovely to see the memorial for the 3 men in the Roots Chat Forum.

Maggie May:

I had the same thought as sinsearacht that Kilkenny was possibly Kilkelly.

Roger

Hello sinsearacht and hello again Roger.

Thanks for your research Roger. I can access newspaper articles by using my library card. (Providing the library service hasn't cancelled the subscription to the newspaper archive since I last used it.) I'll look on FMP first. I thought the 2 Michael Morans might have been cousins. Mind you everyone was a cousin of some degree. One Michael Moran having a younger brother Dominic is a big help in separating them. Did you notice Dominic Moran, GF of a Michael Moran of Sonvolaun in 1901?  I assume that  Michael was a baby since there was no age stated.

I'm not on Facebook sinsearacht. Perhaps I should join. 

My granddad was from Glann. He put Kilkelly as his POB on one English census. Was the nearest Post Office at Kilkelly?  Kilkenny/ Kilkelly is an understandable  mistake. His mother was a Harrington. The mother of Michael Moran of House 9 Glentavraun on 1911 Census was  Bridget Harrington. Mary Horan of House 38 in Glentavraun (1911 Census) may have been born Mary Harrington. There was no Patrick in their household.

 I find it odd that there is no " folk memory " of the incident locally.  Perhaps because it happened far away.  No mention of it in my family. My great-aunts were living in Glann in 1920s. Granddad's cousins and sons of friends and neighbours used to come over from Mayo to work.

I searched for birth registrations of Michael Moran. 20+ results at Swinford. Among them were:  Michael Horan and Michael Moran, born a few days apart, both had fathers Michael and mother Harrington; 2 x Michael Horan, fathers Michael and Patrick, mothers both Moran. (Probably none of these are relevant.)  By this time Horan & Moran had me confused, so I halted the search. ( Once, when asked why he'd left his home, my granddad replied "Because there was no one left to marry", at least, no one to whom he wasn't already related.)

I saw the original post on RootsChat a few months ago. Last month I took advantage of free access to Irish records at FMP for St. Patrick's Day and pored over parish register images of my ancestors' matches & hatches. ( I also submitted some amendments.)  I intend to take out a short-term membership sometime. Then I joined here. When I looked at the RootsChat thread again the other day I saw the photo of the grave, but noticed there was no real progress on matching the men to families.

There were probably other Patrick Horans and Michael Morans I haven't located /considered. I only did a couple of quick searches of census and birth registrations. I didn't delve deeply. Since the consensus seems to be they belonged to Glentavraun I'll look more closely at the families there.

​Thanks for your input, Roger and sinsearacht. We have made some progress.

Maggie May:

Interesting that you bring up the Post Office. The postmistress in Kilmovee died suddenly about a month ago. The parish priest of Kilmovee, Fr. Vincent Sherlock wrote a moving tribute to her  http://sherlockshome.ie/dear-nuala/   You should make his blog a favorite to keep up with the news in Kilmovee. Anyway, the government want to shutdown the Kilmovee PO office and make people go six miles away to Kilkelly. The locals are fighting the proposed change.

Roger

Lovely tribute to Nuala the postmistress. I recalled I'd visited the blog before when I saw the stunning picture of Lake Urlaur.

 So people didn't go to Kilkelly to post letters and parcels? 

John & Catherine Moran & family, including son, Michael, at House 61 Glentavraun on 1911 Census were (I think) the same family who occupied House 83 in 1901. There were at least 2 John & Catherine Moran couples in Glentavraun. Horan & Moran seemed to have accounted for 1/3rd of the population!

John Moran married Catherine Tarpey 17th Feb 1895. His abode was Sonvolaun, hers Glantavraun. His father was Dominic Moran. Catherine's father was Michael Tarpey (deceased). John & Catherine's  sons Michael  (31st August 1897), and  Dominic ( 4th August 1904) were born at Glantavraun.

Andrew Moran married Kate Lowry 20th Feb. 1898. Residence of both at time of marriage was Sonvolaun. Andrew's father was Dominic Moran. Andrew & Kate had sons Michael ( 25th Sept. 1900)  and Dominic, ( 2nd Nov. 1903), both at Sonvolaun . They were at House 7 in Sonvalaun on 1901 census. Head of household was Andrew's father, Dominic.

It seems very likely that Andrew and John were brothers and that their sons Michael were the 2 cousins in the newspaper reports. I found only 2 Dominic Moran births registered at Swineford.

I've not read full newspaper reports yet, just looked at extracts on FMP. According to those the younger Michael Moran was from "Sino Lane" and the elder from "Glan Tacrine". 

Patrick Horan's age was reported as 30 or 33 (26 on grave inscription). I'll need to read the newspapers to gather more info about him.  Possible births: 1893 Sonvolaun (parents Pat & Bridget); Glan (James & Sabina); Cloonein x 2 (John & Mary; James & Catherine); 1897 Glan (John & Anne); 1899 Glan (John & Ellen, she was another Harrington). Others were Culcastle, Caralacka and Corgarriff; I don't know where those places are. Is there a townland or place called Glaistrasna? If there's no such place it might have been Glantavraun again. The birth was Dec. 1898, parents Thomas & Maria.

Maggie May:

No Glaistrasna in Kilmovee.

Not sure what post offices were available in your grandfather's time. They may have addressed their letters with the townland followed by Kilkelly and then Mayo.

Use Google Maps to see where the townlands are located.

Speaking of Kilkelly, have yoou ever heard the haunting song "Kilkelly Ireland"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRHQAtKbRTk

Roger

Glais Trasna is in the nearby Parish of Kilbeagh https://www.logainm.ie/en/36544?s=glastrasna

There was a Post Office in Sinolane up to the 1980s I think, not sure how long it was there. 

Maggie May, I have been asking around about the 3 men to see if someone knows the which families they belonged to but so far nothing conclusive.

Hi Sinsearacht!

Just curious if you live in Kilmovee or Kilbeagh parish? I'm live in Maryland but my paternal grandparents came from Carracastle and Ballaghaderreen and my great-grandmother, Mary Duffy, came from Magheraboy in Kilmovee.

Roger

Roger, 

Not now but from there originally. 

sinsearacht I've found a thread on Ancestry Message Board from a woman in U.S whose grandparents were John Moran & Catherine Tarpey and greatgrandprents Dominic & Honor Moran. That was the family I focussed on in my last post. Poster's father was  Patrick J. Moran b. 1903. The lady said that only one son remained in Ireland,  Dominic "who after their death moved to England with their sons Michael and Patrick". My interpretation of the phrase is that Michael and Patrick were already in England when their parents died and Dominic joined them. This person has cousins in Sinnolane who have helped her with research. You will find the cousins' names if you read the thread. www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/thread.aspx  The thread is Dominic Moran and wife Honor Horan Sinnolane County Mayo. Message Boards>Surnames>Horan>Dominic Moran and wife Honor Horan. Since her original enquiry she found other descendents of Dominic & Honor Moran in U.S.

Sinnolane and Sonvolaun are the same place?

Roger, is the Kilkelly song the one based on emigrant's letters?

Letters from my great-aunt were headed "Glan". No surviving envelopes so no postmark.

Maggie May,

Yes Sinnolane and Sonvolaun are the same place. The most common spelling nowadays is simply Sinolane.

I can't get into the thread on Ancestry as I'm not a member.

Hello

Sorry but new to this!!

Domonic was my Grandfather, he's sons Patrick (my Father) and Michael (uncle)

Very interesting post, great read.

Patrick Moran

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Urlaur/Glentavrau…

This is one of the Michaels Family.

Paddy

Hello Paddy. Good to hear from you. Hoping you sort can out the Morans and enlighten us all.  Was your grandfather the Domonic Moran who was born 4th August 1904 at Glantavraun, parents John Moran and Catherine (Tarpey) or the other Domonic?                                                                                                                                                                                                    

I've realised I put the wrong age for one Michael Moran. Patrick Horan's age on death certificate was 33.

I didn't manage to read newspapers using my library card. It didn't access articles like it did previously.

Hi Maggie

Yes this is the one;

Domonic Moran who was born 4th August 1904 at Glantavraun

2 Sons he's sons Patrick (my Father) and Michael (uncle) both still living.

THe family home was right at the beginning of R25 just off the N17

Paddy

Hello again Paddy.   You must be related to the lady in the U.S.  I mentioned in an earlier post. Her father was Patrick J. Moran, born 1903. I've just re-read what she wrote, in the light of the information you've provided. I think I mis-interpreted what she said about Dom moving to England after his parents died, with Michael and Patrick. I'd assumed Michael and Patrick were Domonic's brothers. I tried to work out when he might have moved to England by looking for death registrations of his parents but I must have been searching the wrong time-frame.

Was the other Dominic Moran , born 1903, son of Andrew and Kate (Lowry), 1st cousin of your grandfather?

 Can you confirm identity of either Michael Moran who died in  the railway accident?

My relatives were at house 59 and probably 60 on 1911 census.

Hi
I saw this topic being discussed on Facebook a short time ago, I am from that general area of kilmovee and there are many families of the names horan and Moran around the general area and it can be very difficult to distinguish between them. If my memory serves me, one of the surviving men who witnessed the accident was a man by the name of Connors. This is an uncommon name and there was only one family of that name in the parish of kilmovee at that time, they lived in Tavrane. My mother, a native of here, is 86 and has a vague recollection of the old people talking about the accident but she can't recall the Horans or Morans involved.

Hello new contributor. ( There is no name on your post.) Thanks for this extra information.  According to a report in The Yorkshire Post of 28th Sept. 1925,  John Connor,  of Kilmovee, escaped injury. Dominic Moran had head injuries.  The Belfast Newsletter of the same date mentions a Thomas Keenan. I don't know where he fits in. It may have been a mistake by the reporter or printer -  Tom Keenan for John Connor.

 As you say, Horans and Morans in your area are very confusing. Especially when they married each other or all gave their children the same names.

The accident happened at Medge Hall near Doncaster on Saturday evening, 26th September 1925. The men were knocked down by an express fish train.. Inquest was at Doncaster 28th Sept.

Hi Maggie

Yes the lady in America is a cousin of mine, we speak from time to time.

One of the Michaels was my Grandfathers Brother (as below)

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Urlaur/Glentavrau…

I only ever met the 2 sisters and my grandfather out of all the family.

I think my grandfather and my Father and uncle moved to england around 1950.

Hope this helps.

Paddy

Hi  Paddy. Yes, that helps a great deal. It's starting to become clearer. I hope you don't mind us practising our detective skills on your family.  

Hi Maggie

Not at all, it is good to see all this information about my family :)

Best wishes

Paddy

   Hi, I know this quite an old thread but I was pleased to come across it! My great uncle was Patrick Horan, the one listed from Corgariff. 

Some years ago I scribbled down some remarks from my elderly aunt, she told me that one of her uncles had been killed in a railway accident in England, although she was unsure if it was Patrick or Michael? I am intrigued to know if this could be him! I am going to do a bit more research.

Hi, my great uncle was Patrick Horan, from Corgariff. Some years ago my elderly aunt told me that one of her uncles was killed in a railway accident in England, although she was unsure if it was Michael or Patrick. I am intrigued to know if this was him! 

Hello, Mary. Good that you can contribute what you know.

Was this your great-uncle Patrick's family on 1911 census?

www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Kilmovee/Corgarriff/7373…

House 10 Corgarriff 

Anne HORAN 50 Head

Patrick HORAN 10 son

+ other children

Photo of the tombstone can be seen on this thread on RootsChat

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=694066.9 

Or go to RootsChat forum, find the Mayo board under Ireland and do a search for Kilmovee or Horan or Moran.

Your image didn't load for me.

Patrick Horan was a 4 month old baby on 1901 census with parents Patt & Ann. 

House 16 Corgarriff (Kilmore, Mayo)

www.census.nationalarchives/pages/1901/Mayo/Kilmore/Corgarriff/1595648

Why was Corgarriff under Kilmore for 1901 census and Kilmovee for 1911?

Born 15th Dec. 1900, registered 30th Jan. 1901. Mother's maiden surname MORLEY. 

That would make him 25 when he died. There were variations in the reported age of the Patrick Horan who died in the accident.

Hello Maggie May
Regarding Kilmore for Corgarriff. I think it is a transcription error. I have noticed that Uggool and Cloonamna
where my ancestors come from is under Kilmore in 1901 instead of Kilmovee. I submitted an error correction to them years ago but nothing has happened.
I have Horan and Moran connected to my Griffin's.
I have just found my Higgins are also from Glan and Tawnyinagh and Derry Roscommon per my DNA matches.
Pat

Hi, apologies that there was nothing on my attachment! It was an error, I am not at home just now but as far as I know my Patrick Horan lived at 18;Corgariff in 1911, with his parents , his sisters and his niece! I have found that one of the hardest things about Kilmovee research is the fact that there are so many Horans and Regans! I will check this ASAP! I may be barking up the wrong tree! Thanks for your interest, Mary