Murphy

Dear Michael

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out.

I have passed this to our Cahir Volunteer who should be in touch soon.

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support

Thank you so much Tom. I don't even know what I'm looking for at this point. I'm just hoping to find anything I can about them. You have been quite helpful and I appreciate your time and effort. 

Tom, I will be in Cahir in March and was wondering if you had any suggestions of places to look or people to talk to for any information I could possibly find. If you are around I would love to meet you.

Thanks,

Michael

That would be great Tom. As of now I will be landing in Cork on the 15th and staying in Cahir from the 16th through the 21st. I plan on going to Dublin to close out the week but that part could change as I have friends to visit in Tralee and Wexford. I can't wait to meet you. Cahir looks like a nice homey type of place.

Thank you so much,

Michael

Thank you so much Tom. I can't wait to meet you and will definitely follow up with the two historians. 

Sorry I am late to this party!  I see that Michael and Lyn and others have Cahir Murphys.  My Murphy ancestors came from Cahir at the same time, and my Catherine O'Brien may be one of the two mentioned.  Here is what I have:  John Murphy, born late 1700s in/near Cahir to a family of stone masons, married Catherine O’Brien in Cahir circa 1800.  (Evidently a different Catherine O’Brien from the one mentioned above, who married Martin Murphy in 1811.  Perhaps the earlier of the two?  But see below) 

There were reportedly seven sons, of which my ancestor John B. Murphy (b. circa 1820, I heard) was one of the elders.  NB The birth date of 1820 for an older son makes little sense if his parents were married ca. 1800, but I am just setting down what was told to my great great uncle. 

John B. Murphy (the son) came to America before 1840.  His father John Murphy reportedly came ca. 1833 and worked in construction.  We were told that all the brothers eventually came.  Their mother Catherine O’Brien never came, and died in Ireland (no date here).  John B. Murphy (d. 1889) is my ancestor through his daughter by a first marriage, Kate Margaretta Murphy (b. 10/15/1848).  Kate’s mother’s name may have been Margaret Driscoll.  There is some conflicting information re. whether Kate M. was born in Ireland or not.  If John B. were already in America before 1840 that may have been difficult.  But I should be able to find out, with help.

John B.’s younger brother William Joseph Murphy was baptized in Cahir on 10/8/1830, and later took his mother’s name of O’Brien.  He joined the British army in 1846, came to the USA in 1855, married Mary Conway here in 1866, and died 1899.  His son Monsignor Wm. F. O’Brien was born 1872, and served in North Carolina and elsewhere.  (Mary came from Cahirciveen/Cahersiveen in Kerry and was a cousin of Daniel O’Connell, whose ggf John married Elizabeth Conway.)

I know the names of no other brothers of John B. Murphy at this point, nor anyone else.  Clearly the information is not perfect.  I have not yet gone to the databases; I just got this from my mother.   Msgr O’Brien wrote that when he attended a Eucharistic conference in Ireland in 1932 he went and and looked over the family records at St Mary’s in Cahir.  That is where he saw his father's baptismal information.

There seem to have been a lot of Murphys in Cahir, at least originally.  The population dropped so quickly in the 1840s and after that it is not surprising that there weren’t many Murphys listed in 1850.

If anyone has a connection or can direct me to a document, please let me know.  Fron internal evidence alone I can't tell which Catherine O'Brien mught have been mine, but the age of 20 at marriage to John Murphy seems more likely than an age of 16, but I don't know whether late or early marriage was common.

Simon in New York

PS One of Ireland’s Victoria Cross recipients, Michael Murphy, was born in Cahir ca. 1837 to Michael Murphy, a blacksmith.  He had a younger sister named Mary.   Murphy won the Cross at Nathapur, during the Mutiny, though it was taken from him for a conviction for theft (posthumously restored).  See Wikipedia.  So we have even more Cahir Murphys to deal with!

Simon, it's great to hear from you. Other than what has been previously stated I can tell you a little more of what I know. 

Martin was married to Jane (Cain/Coyne) and had a child Nicholas who was born in NYC in 1852. They moved to Poughkeepsie sometime before 1855 and had six other children.  Martin and his brother Mort, another stone mason, had a bricklaying business in Poughkeepsie and both fought in the Civil War in Meagher's Irish Brigade. 

I was able to find an obituary for Joseph Brien Murphy from the Poughkeepsie Eagle in 1901. The obituary said Joseph was a Major in the Union  army and was wounded at Fredericksburg. It also said there were six brothers. Three fought for the North and three for the South. I guess that made for some interesting family dinners. Anyway I will find that obituary and attach it to this thread.

I'm looking so forward to my trip to Cahir next month. It's always great to here of Murphy's from Cahir.

Michael

Dear Simon & Michael & Tom:

I'm so delighted to see that all of you have made some contact with one another and that Michael will be in Cahir next month!

If either Simon or Michael would be interested in sharing some of their Murphy family history through the Ireland  XO Chronicles on the website, that would be wonderful for anyone out there with a connection to the family and/or the local area.

Have a wonderful trip to Ireland!

Kind regards,

Jane Halloran Ryan

Volunteer Coordinator

Hello Simon in New York,

I have just read your post of 3rd Feb. It occurs to me that my Cahir Murphy family may be related to your's. I think that because of the names of John and William reoccur in your family, even after emigrating to America. 

The following is some of what I have gleaned from the marriage and baptism records:

James Murphy (1706-1771) and his wife Mary (1704-1751) are buried in the graveyard of the old ruined church (St Marys) in Cahir. I have seen their grave stones after Joe Walsh, local historian, pointed them out to me. 

I think it very possible their children are :

Ellener (abt 1735-1757)  m. John Brenoch

James (abt 1740-abt 1814) m. Elizabeth Power

John m. abt 1780 Joanna Riorden

Mary

William m. Bridget O'Donnell

Alice (possible) There is less evidence but Alice is a possible sister.

Anne (possible) There is less evidence but Anne is a possible sister.

The brothers William and John (above listed) have children and use the names of John, James and William for male children. That's where it gets difficult. However John Murphy (listed above) and Joanna Riorden have twin boys in December 1780 and they name them Edmund and John. In July 1783 a John Murphy (possibly the same John Murphy) has a child to Ellen Murphy (possibly a cousin) and that child is named John. Joanna Riorden may have died as she has no more children to John Murphy.

William Murphy (listed above) has two sons to Bridget O'Donnell. They are named William (b 1777) and James (b1779). Their first son, William Murphy marries a Margaret O'Donnell in 1808 and they have 5 children: Michael (b Oct 1812), Ellen (b Jan 1816), John (Mar 1819), William (July 1820), and anoher John (b June 1823). Perhaps the first John died.

Those birth dates don't seem to fit with your John Murphy who married Catherine O'Brien about 1800. Nevertheless the use of names John, William and James are possibly coming from the same Murphy line. 

Sorry if I have just confused you by giving you this information. There are too many John Murphys in Cahir. 

My family line comes through from James Murphy who married Elizabeth Power. They had the lease from 1781 for the hotel called the New Inn and later called the Glengall Arms. Their granddaughters emigrated to New South Wales.

If you manage to sort out more about your John Murphy I would love to hear about it. 

Regards...Lyn

Lyn,

So glad to hear from you.  I would put no stock in an 1800 marriage date for my John Murphy to C. O'Brien, particularly since a son who was reportedly one of the first was born ca 1820, and the youngest son, he father of the one who provided the information, saw his father's baptismal record from 1830 at St Mary's.  It looks like the marriage was later than that to me.  I will try to find it.  Mean while, thanks for elaborating with the names going back to the early 18C.  It is possible that we do fit together.  

And yes it is completely maddening that everyone seems to use the same few names!  There were probably a,dozen John Murphys in Cahir back then!  I will be in touch here.  S

Tom,

Bless your heart!  Many thanks for your volunteering and work on our behalf.  I couldn't do it without you.  Perhaps my relative Monsignor O'Brien was not fully informed about the origin of his surname:  I see a marriage in the list that looks right, but it is John Murphy to Catherine MURPHY, not O'Brien.  Jan 11, 1818.  Not long before my ancestor John B. Murphy was born, ca 1820.  (We were told, as I mentioned above, that John B's youngest brother Wm Joseph took his mother's maiden name, but I see no John Murphy-Cath. O'Brien marriages.)  Is there any further information about the 1/11/1818 marriage and any offspring?

Also, The son John Murphy's marriage to Margaret Driscoll appears in the list at Feb 10, 1845.  Any more information would be most welcome.  It looks like he was not in America then after all.  And this works well with an 1848 birth date for Kate Margareta Murphy, my ancestor.  If anything else shows up about these marriages, I'd be happy to see it.  I will try to look myself but I don't know my way around yet.  Thanks again,

Simon

PS Lyn and Michael, we may yet find a connection.  Slowly, slowly.  

You guys are the absolute best!! I can't wait to get to Cahir and meet you. Thanks for everything you've done it has been invaluable to me.

Michael

Tom,

I will be staying at Cahir House from Thursday (16) through Sunday or Monday (19/20). I'd love to get together with you while there. You can contact me at the hotel if you are available.

Thanks

Michael Murphy

Tom,

I just wanted to thank you for escorting me around Cahir. It was most informative and was the highlight of my trip. Once again, Thank you

Michael Murphy

Tom, 

Thank you so much once again and thanks to Lyn also. Your kindness is unbelievable. I started planning my next trip before I left. I love the attachments. I might have the picture from the bridge enlarged and framed. My dog has won Best of Breed a few times since I was I was in Cahir. She is spoiled rotten. Once again, thank you for all of your hard work but mostly thank you for your friendship. 

Michael

Dear Michael:

Thank you for your kind words to Thomas who is an brilliant volunteer in the Cahir area.  Please keep us posted as to your progress!  Glad to hear that you had such an enjoyable trip to Ireland!

Kind regards,

Jane.

Jane,

Tom was wonderful. Such a personable guy. He really made my trip memorable. I would sing his praises  to anyone. I'm planning on going back in the next few months.

Michael

Thank you Tom. I had such a good time in Cahir last March that I returned this past November and made several new friends. Cahir is one of the most welcoming towns I’ve ever encountered. I hope to return in the fall. Thanks again for all of your hard work.

Michael 

Hello Tom and all my Murphy probable relatives,

I have one or two questions Tom for you that you hopefully can answer. You posted on 13th Feb 2017 a document which listed 4 Murphy marriages in the Church of Ireland. The list did not give the spouse's names. However I think I may identify two of those listed. Can you please check if these agree with your list. (I no longer subscribe to Rootsireland and may not join again unless there seems an important necessity. It is so very expensive now.)  The ones to check please are Elizabeth Murphy marriage 1805. Is this marriage on 6 August 1805 to John Minikin? John Minikin was quarter Master of the 47th Foot. The Minikin family came from Cashel I think. John Minikin of Linville is mentioned in the Murphy-Baldwin letters (Cork Archives). Letter 24 of 9th Nov 1822 in which, amongst other things, ‘he thanks his cousins Ellen Murphy, Mary Bourk, and Johanna Magrath for their influence’ in assisting his affairs. 

The other is Ellen Murphy who married Patrick McManus 4 Feb 1807. Patrick was of the Kilkenny Regiment. I know nothing more about him or what happened to the couple. I think Elizabeh and Ellen were daughters of James Murphy (Innkeeper of the New Inn/Glengall Arms) and Elizabeth Power.

It would be handy to know the spouses for William Murphy marriage 1807 and Jane Murphy marriage 1810 who are the other two on your list. Seems the Murphy family of the Inn were likely to marry men of regiments who no doubt frquented the inn.

Another question I have for you is about Dr Everard whom I think was a priest of Cahir. Do you know anything about him or his family? A Dr Everard was one of the people who helped Mary Aitkenhead to decide to send Sisters of Charity to Australia. I am wondering if Sister Mary John Cahill who led the group to Australia in 1838 was from Cahir. Any idea? 

The five Murphy women in my family who came to Sydney in January 1841 seem to have had an association with the Catholic Church in Windsor (about 50 kms form Sydney). Church and clergy connections seem to be poppibg up in my research about them. 

I am coming back to Ireland in April and spending most of my time in and around Cahir and Thurles. I will be at Cahir House starting 26th April. The Murphy collection from Ballinamona House near Cashel is now at the archives in Thurles and there is a wonderful lot of goodies to look at relating to William Murphy of Ballinamona. He was a brother to my ggg-grandmother Elizabeth Murphy. She married James Murphy junior of the Glengall Arms in 1801.

Looking forward to being in Tipperary again and hope we might get a chance to meet up.

Best wishes my friend.

Lyn Stewart

Thanks Tom,

I had almost all of those.  The last one -Elizabeth Murphy marriage to John Hefernan I can't place in my tree although a James Murphy is witness. The William Murphy marriage to Margaret Ryan is also a new one.

New question: I have come across  a Reverend P. Slattery in Sydney. He was a tenant in 1877 at 106  Abercrombie Place, Chippendale,Sydney. The owner of the house was Joseph Shepherd who lived in the next house (108). Joseph is Catherine Sheherd's son. Catherine Murphy was one of the 5 sisters in my family arriving Jan 1841 and she marred William Shepherd and Joseph is one of her sons.

I have also found a Reverend Thomas Slattery in Windsor in 1843. He arrived at that post after the five Murphy girls lived in Windsor for a short time early 1841. Was there a Reverend Thomas Slattery in Cahir? A man of the same name, Thomas Slattery, signed the five Murphy girls' entitlement certificates when they decided to apply for the Bounty system of emigrating. Is it possible the Reverend Thomas Slattery in Windsor NSW, is the same man as the Thomas Slattery who signed the papers in Cahir in 1840 or 1841?

Lyn

Hello Tom,

I had seen this family in the records before but because there don't seem to be any of my Cahir Murphy family at the baptisms I dont  think they are closely related.

I have answered my own question about Thomas Slatterry who signed the girls certificates. I think he was one of the gentlemen of Cahir.  He was not a priest as he is in the records as Mr Thomas Slattery. He paid the surity for several Cahir gents when they got into a spot of trouble in Tubrid in July 1832. They were protesting about the tithes by marching up and down the street with banners and music! How rebellious of them!. My imagination runs riot.

I will be travelling in a rented car from Dublin to Cahir on Thursday 26th April and staying 4 nights in Cahir at the Cahir House Hotel (by now quite familiar). If you think you may be home on that Thursday I will call in to see you Tom. Let me know. You have given me such a wonderful tour of Cahir last time I feel I could not ask you to come to Cahir again and do that again!! However I would love to see you again and have a chat about the family history I  am putting together.

Regards Lyn

Hi Tom, Yes, it was being advertised when I was last in Cahir nearly 2 years ago. I hope the new owners renvate it, or at least the facade, to former glory. Look forward to seeing you on the morning of Thursay 26th April. 

Regards 

Lyn

Tom,

Thanks so much for the added information.  I will try to process it when I can.  I am still in the dark about which Murphys are mine.  But I wanted to pass along this link, to the memoirs of my cousin, Msgr William Francis O'Brien.  HIs father was born in Caher as a Murphy, the youngest son of John Murphy.  The story goes (as he writes on page 12), that his father stayed home in Ireland with his mother when the others left, and took his mother's name.  We (above) haven't been able to find a Catherine O'Brien married to a John Murphy at the right time, so this is somewhat frustrating.  the Monsignor seemed to think that his brothers and grandfather left in the '30s, but the records you found showed that his uncle JOhn B. married Margaret Driscoll in '45 and had my ancestor Kate in '48, in Caher.  I am puzzled by the whole thing.  Anyway, here is the link.  There is an Assembly of the Knights of Columbus in Durham NC named after him.  He served there for decades. 

https://ia800302.us.archive.org/3/items/memoirsofmonsign00obri/memoirso…

Thanks Tom, as always. 

Michael,

 I was reading some of the book on Cappanuic (a townland outside Cahir) written by the son of Joseph Murphy/O'Brien who became a priest.In it he said that a large number of Cahir families settled around Connecticut. So it is interesting that Jack Dempsey thr Governer of Connecticut  in the 1950/60s .was born in Lower Abbey Street,Cahir, opposite the old Forge with the horse shoe entrance and within a 100 yards of where the Murphy family lived on the Mountain road. We understand he has the distinction of being the first non native born Governor In the USA.. So you had neighbours in high places.

Enjoy

Tom  

 I do know that Joseph Brien Murphy had a so that was a priest who said his funeral Mass in Staunton, Virginia. Do you have the name of the book?  Joseph was a Major with Meagher’s Irish brigade who was wounded in battle. He later became an aide to Secretary of War Seward and Gen. O.O. Howard. After the war he became Superintendent of the Federal Cemetery in Staunton, VA. His pall bearers included members of the Stonewall Jackson brigade of the Confederate Veterans. He must have been quite a man. The obituary said that of six brothers, three fought for the Union and three fought for the Confederacy. That must have made for interesting dinner conversations. My ggGrandfather, Martin, and his brother Murtaugh we’re both Lieutenants in Meaghers brigade. Once again Tom, thank you so much. 

Michael,

Attached please find the digital version of the book Cappanuiac written by Joseph's son.When you amplify the page to full screen you can read it with some ease. I suspect that Joseph and his mother may have mover back to her home place  but I I will investigate further

Enjoy

Tom

HEN YOU AMPLIFY THE PAGE TO FULL SCREEN I

Wonderful!! Thank you Tom. I hope to be back in Cahir soon. Would love to catch up. You’ve been a wealth of of information. 

Thank you Tom. That’s very exciting. I would love that. I’m trying to get together a trip this summer. I will contact you. Merry Christmas my friend. 

Hello Tom and Michael. This unfortunately is not the marriage record I was seeking. However I have found the likley record of arrival in Sydney of James Murphy , his wife and two children in 1859. 

Michael, Please get your DNA tested so we can see if we have any shared DNA. My dna results are on ancestry,com. Let me know if you do it.

Regards, Lyn

Lyn, I’m also on ancestry.com dna as well as FTDNA. I don’t know if the Australian and American data bases are both included but I did a search and nothing came up under Lyn Stewart or Lyn Murphy. I was disappointed.