Hello:
I have the arrival information for my ancestor(40)[Michael Hogan] in Sydney with his son(17)[Patrick] and daughter(20)[Margaret] on Dec 25th 1856. The father and son are listed as agricultural labourers and the daughter as a farm servant. The father and daughter could neither read nor write. The son was able to do both. They list their address as "Castetown", "County Tipperary". The ship departed from Plymouth, England in September 1856. The father lists his parents as Patrick and Hannah (both deceased), and his wife as Hannah (also deceased). Religious affiliation is RC.
(a) Is it likely that they would have entered their townland or civil parish as their address? If it is townland then there appear to be four different "Castletowns" in Tipperary in the following parishes: Moyne, Loughkeen, Kilbarron, and Casteltownarra. If not, then only Castletowanarra seems to fit the evidence. Opinions?
(b) If they list themselves as farm labourers does that mean they were more likely to be working for someone else or could they have also been "tenant farmers"? The daughter listing herself as a farm servant would seem to indicate they were working on a larger farm. Opinions? I have already looked through Griffiths for Casteltownarra and found tenants with the correct names listed for Balingeer and Castletown townlands.
(c) The son was able read and write - schools were established around this time - which places should I make advance arrangements at to look at enrolment records? Do these normally list parents names and address more accurately?
(d) I would like to try to find out about Michael's parents and their parents. Some parishes seem to have finished record digitization - others not. Portroe does not seem to have records prior to 1849. Are they avaialble in book form (and is it permitted to review them)? I'm planning to visit Ireland in late July and early August.
Thank you for your help.
danhogan
Tuesday 13th Jan 2015, 09:36PMMessage Board Replies
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From what I've seen it was more common to give place of origin as the name of a nearby town, village or even Catholic Parish than the name of a townland.
Did marriage or detah certs for Margaret or Patrick give their mother's maiden name ?
Records for many, but not all, Catholic parishes in Co. Tipperary are available on RootsIreland pay-website. Having the the full names of both Michael and Hannah would help the search..
Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Wednesday 14th Jan 2015, 06:55PM -
Thank you that helps narrow things down a bit. No - I don't have the last name of Michael's mother - just first of his father and Mother. Patrick and Hannah (both deceased as of 1856). Michael's own wife (Hannah) was also deceased prior to arrival in Sydney.
danhogan
Wednesday 14th Jan 2015, 09:57PM -
I think we're mixing up the two different Hannahs... I was thinking of Michael's wife, mother of Margaret and Patrick (b. c1839) Would this Hannah's full name not be included on her children's marriage and death certs ?
I think the best starting point would be the children baptisms, mainly because they are more recent records, Patrick c1839, and Margaret c1836, and therefore more likely to available. Finding possible records for them in Tipperary based on both parent's names matching would give a more detailed location for you... The average starting date for Catholic records in rural area is about 1830, so for most parishes it would probably not be possible to trace baptisms back as far as Micheal's generation.
Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Wednesday 14th Jan 2015, 10:34PM -
Good afternoon.
It may be possible that they were employed in the Castletown Estate near area that is now referred to as Old Kilbarron an area approx. twelve miles from Nenagh North Tipperary
Will send you link to estate
Might be worth going through Roots Ireland for the parish of Kilbarron/Terryglass
If I come up with anything will let you know or if you have any questions about the area do let me know
Regards
Bill Ryan
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=TN&…Terryglass55, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Thursday 22nd Jan 2015, 03:54PM -
Hi Bill:
Thanks for this hint - i'll look into it. I received some further infromation that may indicate they were not entirelty truthful about the occupations they put on their immigration information for Australia. They emigrated when the austrlaian gold rush was in full swing. Apparently, by that time, the various state governments were only accepting farm labourers for assisted passage - so that is what they wrote down. It seems their actual occupation in Ireland may have been "miner" - possibly slate quarrys?
Someone else said that the information I ma looking for may only be avaialble at a monastery near Lorrha.
Thanks again
Dan
danhogan
Thursday 22nd Jan 2015, 07:41PM -
Hi
A colleague has kindly passed on the following link to me it might be worth taking a look
Regards
Bill Ryanhttp://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CoTipperary/2002-04/10197…
Terryglass55, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Friday 23rd Jan 2015, 12:12PM -
Thank you - very helpful - my sister Tricia Hecher wrote that!! I guess we should talk more often? LOL
danhogan
Friday 23rd Jan 2015, 07:23PM -
There is Castletown in the Parish of Moyne/Templetuohy, Co. Tipperary. Try looking up The Parish Registers which are available through N L I .ie( the National Library of Iteland).
In October 1846 there is a Michael Hogan married to Hanora Ryan. Good luck with the Parish Registers, you would have to God Almighty to make out some of them !
T/Tuohy
Monday 29th Aug 2016, 01:01PM -
Ok, thank you. Is it likely they would have had two children before getting married? The dates for arrival in Australia and the ages of the children at that time are pretty accurate.
danhogan
Thursday 1st Sep 2016, 01:34AM -
There are various state governments which only accepting farm laborers for assisted passage.
Thursday 13th Sep 2018, 11:36AM