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I have been searching for the birth/baptism information for my gr-gr-grandmother, Elizabeth Bateman, daughter of John Bateman, Esq. of Oak Park, Tralee (Killeen) for some time using internet resources (Ancestry.com, Familysearch, Irishgenealogy.ie) without success and hope someone in Tralee might be able to help me.   Elizabeth was born about 1823-4 in co. Kerry, according to later census returns.  She married Rev. Thomas O'Regan in 1845 in Booterstown, co. Dublin, her father's name given as John Bateman, Esq.and a witness was Rowland Bateman.  The marriage announcement in The Morning Post, London, describes her as "daughter of John Bateman Esq. of Oak Park, county Kerry".  Elizabeth died 25 Jan 1898, in England, aged 74.    I have a holograph family tree written out in the early 1900's which shows her as having 2 sisters, Annie Isabella (eldest, born abt 1822-3) and Jane (youngest, born abt 1827), a brother John, as well as a half-brother, Rowland Bateman, b. 1826 in Tralee.   Annie Isabella married John Pemberton in Dublin on 27 Oct 1863 and was described as "eldest daughter of late Capt. Bateman of Leslie Park, Croydon, Surrey" (residence of John Bateman at the time).  Jane married John Stokes in Dublin on 20 Feb 1865 and was described as "youngest daughter of late Captain John Bateman J.P. Croydon, Surrey."

Her father, John Bateman, was born 1792 in Tralee to Rowland Bateman and Arabella Denny.  He entered TCD in 1810 at age 17 and was a Captain in the Kerry militia, ca. 1814-6, and was elected MP for Tralee in 1837, however the election was later over-turned.  He was appointed a magistrate in 1820, which year he filled the office of high-sherriff.  He lost his Irish estates in the Incumbered Estates courts and moved to England where he died 1 Oct 1863.   I have a copy of his will, dated 25 Sep 1863, in which he makes bequests to Elizabeth O'Regan, Anne Bateman, Jane Bateman and John Bateman but does not describe their relationships to him. Genealogical resources (i.e. Burke's) all show his only marriage as being to Frances Bland (or Crump-Bland), daughter of Nathaniel Bland, on 25 Sep 1824 at St. Marylebone, London, England, with a son Rowland born 16 May 1826 in Tralee (who died 1857 in the Indian mutiny at Lucknow) and no other children.

My brick wall is the identity of Elizabeth's mother (and likely also the mother of Anne Isabella, Jane and possibly John), and the date and location of their births/baptisms.  I am quite certain that Anne Isabella, Elizabeth and Jane were all daughters of John Bateman, but much less certain about the purported son John.   The inferred dates of Annie Isabella's and Elizabeth's births are both earlier than his marriage to Frances Bland, suggesting a different mother.    Any help whatsoever would be MUCH appreciated!

 

toedwar

Friday 2nd Jan 2015, 05:50PM

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  • Hello Tom on www.irishgenealogy.ie the only record showing is for Rowland Bateman born 16th May 1826 Baptised 2nd June 1826 in Kerry COI records.
    Parents John Bateman & Frances Bateman.
    The above site covers records for Dublin also, but cannot see any relevant to your search. Regards

    Friday 2nd Jan 2015, 11:17PM
  • Hello Byegonedays, Thank you for your reply and the reference to the baptism of Rowland Bateman.  I have seen his baptism records and the photo for my ID on this forum is actually a portrait of Rowland Bateman that has been passed down in my family.  I have searched the www.irishgenealogy.ie website using every search term I can think of but without success.  The website says it includes co. Kerry parish records, however I am curious to know how complete it is, eg. if there are any Kerry parish records that are missing from the website for the time period 1820-1830?   John Bateman's main seat was at Oak Park, Tralee, however he also held Brosna Manor, but I don't know in which parish or townland it is located. Tom

    toedwar

    Monday 5th Jan 2015, 09:50PM
  • Dear Tom, A few thoughts on the 'missing' records.... there are a few possibilities.

    The online records are not complete. The C of I records generally go back further, sometimes to the late 1700s but many parishes of either denomination have gaps. Many of the paper records have been lost. Records for some parishes during the Famine are very slender due to the strain on the clergy. Many of them died of Famine Fever. The quality of the records also varies enormously, as I know from long hrs spent transcribing. Access to the paper records is at the discretion of each PP/Vicar and sometimes is restricted to one person who is known and trusted. So there may not be a record of her birth/baptism in existence. But, it would always be worth writing to the Vicar to ask in case there may have been an error or omission in transcription to the online records. 

    However, if her father served in the British Army or Navy you may well find details of his marriage/s in his military records here http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ Sometime ago, another person who was researching found details of a marriage in India... which addressed some discrepancies in their research.  If you do not know where Bateman served, his obituary would usually list that. http://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/

    In the meantime I don't know if you have already seen this http://www.landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=1949

    I cannot find anything about a Brosna Manor, do you know if this is Brosna in North Kerry?

    Warm wishes

    Martine

    Tuesday 13th Jan 2015, 08:34PM
  • Hello Martine, Thank you for your very helpful comments. I have assumed that Brosna is in Kerry. The obituary for Arabella Denny (John Bateman's mother) in 1848 reads: "...and relict of Rowland Bateman, esq. of Oak Park (Killeen), Adravale and Brosna Manor,...". The information at http://www.landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=1949 gives the location as: "The Bateman family were lessors in the parish of Killinny, barony of Corkaguiny and Ballincuslane, Brosna, Kilgarrylander and Ratass, barony of Trughanacmy,at the time of Griffiths Valuation." from which I assume Brosna is in co. Kerry. In addition to Brosna, I am also not certain where Adravale is located? I am not aware that John Bateman served in the British Army. He was a Captain in the Kerry militia, however I think that was mostly ceremonial and I don't believe that he actually served anywhere. His son, Rowland (b. 1826) did serve in the British Army. He was a Lieutenant in the 64th Regiment, served in India and died during the relief of Lucknow in 1857. Tom

    toedwar

    Wednesday 14th Jan 2015, 03:26PM
  • Looking on the Landed Estates website, http://www.landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=1944 there is an entry for Brosna Rectory, in Kilmaniheen townland and barony of Trughanacmy.  It is listed under the Sandes/Collis-Sandes Estates, and the description given is: "In the 1830s, the Ordnance Survey Name Books record Rev. Joshua Jones as the proprietor of Brosna Glebe. Maurice Sandes was leasing the property to Rev. Edward Norman at the time of Griffith's Valuation when it was valued at £9. "  According to the map on the website, it is located right on the border of Kerry and Limerick, south-east of Listowel.   I wonder if this Brosna Manor, or at least close to it.  John Bateman's estate, Oak Park, in Tralee was sold to Maurice Sandes and was held by Sandes at the time of Griffiths Valuation, so perhaps this was part of the sale?

    I cannot find any reference to Adravale on the Landed Estates website.

    toedwar

    Wednesday 14th Jan 2015, 11:06PM
  • Sunday 25th Jan 2015, 07:52PM
  • Sunday 25th Jan 2015, 07:55PM
  • There is an Eliz B baptised in Naas, Co. Kildare on Nov 1,1823 father John, mother Ann (unknown) Church of Ireland ??

    Have you already tried rootsireland? 

    Sunday 25th Jan 2015, 09:38PM
  • Thank you for the information!   The links to the Griffiths records are very helpful, it is interesting that John Bateman seemed to own the entire townland of Adravale.   I was interested in the location of Brosna and Adravale as I thought that if these were second homes for the Bateman family, perhaps the children might have been baptized in a local church.   But it looks like the nearest church was Tralee to both locations.

    I had seen the transcribed entry for the baptism of Eliz B in Naas, Nov 1, 1823 before, but while the date is tantalizingly close, I have no way of verifying if it is my Eliz or another child.   Do you know if the parish register of Naas is available on microfilm?   I am in Canada and so cannot get to the National Archive or the COI library to view the registers.   I would like to actually look at this entry to see if there is any other information, such as abode or occupation, that wasn't transcribed.    I also haven't found any baptisms for her sisters Annie Isabella or Jane.  If they had the same mother's name it would be great confirmation that this is the correct baptism.  Tom

    toedwar

    Tuesday 27th Jan 2015, 05:28AM
  • Hi Tom, try familysearch.ie to see if they can get a copy of the microfiche to your nearest Family History centre and do let us know the outcome...

    Martine 

    Sunday 7th Jun 2015, 05:16PM
  • Hello again - An update - I hired a researcher and obtained a scanned copy of the 1823 baptism of Elizabeth Bateman, dau. of John Bateman and his wife Ann, in NAAS from the RCB Library; however it does not give any other information about the parents, so I am still uncertain if this is "my" Elizabeth. 

    Tom

    toedwar

    Sunday 20th Mar 2016, 03:47AM
  • What a shame Tom.. I hate when this happens.We always hope that the record will have added information. If you go to http://www.one-name.org and put Bateman in the search box it offers some links for your name. Sorry I don't have time to check them for you. Good luck

    Martine

    Thursday 24th Mar 2016, 12:37AM

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