Francis Savage & Isabella McNab, born about 1843......

I can?t see the marriage listed in the civil marriage indexes. That suggests it was before 1864 and was an RC ceremony. In that case you would need to check the relevant parish records. Portadown is in the parish of Ballyphilip. There?s a copy of the RC records for that held in PRONI, Belfast. They start in 1843. It isn?t clear whether they are on-line anywhere and you may need to visit PRONI to access them.

You might want to get one of the birth certs to see where the family were living. You can then look for them in Griffiths Valuation and the revaluation records. Jessy?s birth was registered in Downpatrick 1864 Vol 11, page 471.

You can order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for ?4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). Don?t worry about leaving some boxes blank. You don?t need to fill them all in if you have the reference details. http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Tick the relevant box on the form.

Thank you......I am finally getting around to doing as you say :-)

May I ask, should I be getting an email to say there is a message waiting for me on IrelandXO? There has been a delay in me answering several messages because I didn't realise they were there. Is there somewhere I have to tick to say I want that or is it not part of the system?

Many thanks, and a Happy New Year,

Trevor

Trevor,

My response whould have appeare dont he e-mail account you used. However I am not a technical expert. If you are not betting a response, I suggest you e-mail on the "contatc us" section. (I don't know much about the IT side of the site).

Elwyn

Today I asked the same question on the County Down area of the Rootschat website forum.

I was gobsmacked when they came back to me quickly, having looked on Family Search website to find Francis and Isabella married in Girvan, Ayrshire, Scotland in 1860! I was then able to find their marriage register on Scotlands People website, and now have their parents names.

They obviously moved to Co.Down after marrying. There they had their 6 children, and Isabella died. Then Francis moved back to Ayrshire with the children.

I haven't found whether either of them was Irish or whether they were Scottish. She was born about 1839, he 1837, according to their ages on their marriage register. He was born in Ireland according to two Scottish Censuses after he moved back there.

His father was John Savage, a Sea Captain, and mother Fanny nee McAulay, both deceased in 1860.

Her father was John McNabb, Farmer, and mother Jane nee Hastey.

I'm still interested therefore in whether one or both had Irish birth - possibly only him, so his parents may be found in Irish records.

Also where she might be buried in 1876 in Co.Down. Probably Portaferry. They were living at Bankmore, Portaferry when their eldest child Jessy was born in 1864.

I didn't have any success with Griffiths Valuation yet, and can't find revaluation records.

Regards, Trevor

Trevor,

I am glad you have found the marriage. I had a look at that 1860 marriage in Ayrshire. I notice that the marriage was Church of Scotland. Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church, so that indicates that she was Presbyterian. So of Scottish origin, if not born in Scotland. So if you are searching church records for Isabella?s baptism, it?s probably Presbyterian records that you need to look at.

Isabella?s parents were both alive in 1860, according to the marriage cert. I looked for the family in the 1851 census but could not find them. I also looked for her mother?s death in Scotland (generally easy to do as there is a facility for searching on married and previous surnames) but cannot find it. I also looked for John McNabb and Jane Hasty?s marriage in Scotland but again did not find it. I also looked in the census for a Charlotte McNabb (witness to the wedding) but could not find anyone of the right age and parentage listed.  So there is no sign of the McNab(b) family in Scotland. There are several John & Jane McNabb deaths registered in Co Down, notably Downpatrick regn area in the period 1864 ? 1900. My suspicion therefore is that Isabella?s family were also from Co Down (but of Scottish origins).

I notice what may be Francis in Kilmarnock in the 1861 census, married but alone, place of birth Co. Down, so it looks as though Isabella was away to Ireland even by then.

Regarding whether Francis was Irish or Scottish, I?d say you are looking at Irish origins. The name Savage is very common in Ireland (there were 767 of them in the 1901 census for Co Down). That generally points to Irish origins in the short term. But what was his denomination, do you know? (The Savages in the 1901 census are a mix. Some RC, some Prebsyterian etc). If Presbyterian then he's likely to be of Scottish origins; if RC then more likely Irish, but having said that people have been crossing and recrossing the North Channel between Ireland and Scotland for thousands of years and ultimately it?s all a bit of a melting pot.

I cannot immediately see exactly where Bankmore is in Portaferry. I assume it?s in the townland of Ballyphillip but the Griffiths Valuation site is down at present and that makes it harder to locate the relevant revaluation records.

My only possible clue for you is that Charlotte McNabb was a witness to that 1860 marriage in Ayr. She was presumably a close relative of Isabella?s. A sister perhaps?  She doesn?t appear to have been a resident of Scotland. So I searched in Ireland and found a Charlotte McNabb who married a James Orr. The marriage was registered in Downpatrick 1872, Volume 11, page 641. The bride?s father was named John McNabb. I wonder whether this might be Isabella?s witness, and her sister?  If so you might want to order the marriage cert to see where she was living, as that may take you to Isabella?s family home.

Elwyn

Thanks for your interest and investigations, Elwyn!

We are getting it narrowed down (mainly to Ireland it seems), and I will keep you posted.

I hadn't spotted that 1861 Kilmarnock possible Francis.......it could be him, and might explain why they didn't seem to be making children between 1860 and 1864!

I expect Francis to be Presbyterian.

There is a Bankmore Hill on the coast just south of Portaferry, where there is a headland jutting out, by the Folly Castle. Google images actually comes up with some ruined cottages/barns there.

I had found Griffiths to be down at the moment also.

I also found Charlotte McNab marrying James Orr, having 3-5 children, and living near Portaferry. This is probably a good route into the McNabb family via their marriage cert :-)

Many thanks again for your help,

Regards,

Trevor