Farrellys (or Farrells)

Hello Lori,

Many thanks for your query re your family search. 

Have you see the moynalty baptism record. I will be in Moynalty later this week to check out other church records.  I'll  see if there is any additional information on Patrick's baptism record not computerised. no sponsors would be unusal.

Farrelly and Farley are the same surname. Farrell is a different name.  I suspect the y was accidently not written on the census. take a look at the original census document incase it was mis-typed at computerisation.

Catholic civil registrations for births, marriages and deaths commenced in 1864, non catholics in 1845. Farrelly is traditionally a catholic surname, Gorden I would associated as protestant, Gorey and Goren no idea. Check civil records on www.familysearch.org just in case Peter and Ann were non catholic. check out the surname Gordan which I associated as protestant .

If they are catholic, then we have to rely on church records.  Moynalty catholic church records commence 1830. In 1800s,  the moynalty priest normally did not record address details on baptism records.

Looking at Griffith valuations for Moynalty circa 1855 (www.askaboutireland.ie/griffithvaluations) and Tithe Applotments (http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp) , there are farrellys in Moynalty parish. There are no Gorey/Gorden/Goren and I have never heard of these names in the area . Gordan name I have heard in the townland of Corgreath known locally as Killagriff. It is in the neighbouring civil parish of Moybolgue, catholic parish of Kilmainhamwood, church of Ireland will be either Moybolgue or maybe bailieborough or killann. To add another complication to searching this parish, it is part in Co Meath, part  Co Cavan. Gordan name has now died out in Killagriff. Moynalty parish still has farrelly family.  tithe applotments only list tenants and land owers of greater than 3 acres. Griffith lists all head of households. Use google.com/maps to located the townlands identified in Griffith and Tithe Applotments. Patrick is born just  a few years after the irish famine. 40% of Moynalty population was supposed to have died.

I do not have an active subscription for www.rootsireland.ie at the moment.  There is church marriage record in Co Meath, 1853 between peter farrelly and Ann.  It didn't match with Gorey, Goren, Gorden, Gordan surname or Moynalty parish. It cost 25 credits. check out there pricing structure for more information on this if you wish to investigate this record further.

Did you ever trace the death certs for Peter or his brothers.  did they give you any further info.  If Patrick was peter's oldest son, then Patrick might be his father's name. Traditionally the eldest son and second daughter where called after his parents, eldest daughter and second son after her parents.

Did you trace Thomas Farrelly and Mary Grace marriage and childrens baptisms. Grace is another name I would not have heard of in the area.  People wouldn't have gone far to find there marriage partner. 

Later this year there are plans to release the Morpeth Roll on www.ancestory.com. Google Morpeth roll for more info.  Currently Irish historians are working on it.  It contains 250,000 signatures collected in Sept 1841.

Gordan is not on the 1901 and 1911 census for Corgreagh DED Moybolgue, but I know there was a Gordan there in 1920. 1821 census for a few parishes are in existance, but not for the parish of Moynalty or Moybolgue.

Sometimes reviewing area, street and business directories can be a lucky hit, especially if not a common name. Try www.findmypast.ie or www.origins.net (irish origins tab). they are generally list gentry and business people, not small tenant farmers. Moynalty is still a rural parish, as is Killagriff townland.  There are a few other list on these websites too,.  Petty session (court) and prison records have loads of names on www.findmypast.ie. They are continually computerising more files. If you sign up as a member alway free, you can subscrib free for there monthly e-mails. Keep yourself up todate with new records been computerised.

Sorry not to be more helpful at the moment.  I'll let you know what I find in Moynalty records. If you have any further queries, please post them and I'll try my best to help you. 

Regards

Catherine

Hi Lori,

As a follow up to my last message,  I took another look at Gordon/Gordan.  I found Gordon on Killagriff census 1901 and 1911.  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Meath/Trohanny/Corgrea… do not give different variants of the same name.  Found 3 families of them on both census.  Trohanny is the DED for Killagriff townland. Also 3 families on the Griffith valuations in 1855.

Gordons in Killagriff are Presbyterians.  www.rootsireland.ie does not have the presbyterian church records for Bailieborough or Ervey churches.  I'll make enquiries if any one in the area remembers these families, any relation still around and which church they attended.

If you look at Co Cavan Census there are Gordons in the Bailieborough DED. they were also presbyterian.  I got Gordons in the Bailieborough Church of Ireland parish records, but cannot be these unless the 1830 generation where COI.

Baptism 1829 ann gordon, father was William, Bailieborough COI parish

Marriage 1858 Ann, father was william, Baiieborough COI parish. Groom not Peter Farrelly

I'd say these 2 records relate to the same ann.

Baptism 1835 ann gordon, father john, Knockbride COI parish. Knockbride is next parish north of Bailieborough.

If Ann could be found, maybe her church minister may have written a note against her baptism record as to when she married, where and especially if the spouse was catholic.  Have you ever heard reports that this may have been a mixed religious marriage.  Going to USA would have given them a new life. But in the decades after the famine, there was mass emigration from Moynalty and Ireland anyway.

Regards

Catherine

Wow, Catherine, thanks so much for your replies.  That was a lot of info!

Anne died in 1911.  Her death certificate doesn't contain much information.  The informant was her son Patrick, and there wasn't any family info (mother & father said "don't know") or even a burial place.  She died in a small town, with one Catholic cemetery and one that isn't, so burial would have given a big clue as to whether she was Catholic or not, but no luck  there.  It just said the town name.  I never did hear anything about it being a "mixed religion" marriage, and the only living member of the family who might have is my mother, who also did not.  Unfortunately, Anne died before my mother was born, however.

The "Gorden" came from Patrick's death certificate, where the parents were listed.  The informant there was Patrick's youngest son, so it may have been heard wrong or mistaken information.

I did find a marriage record for Peter Farrelly and Anne Garry in Carnaross, Meath, 26 Sept 1853 on Roots Ireland.  No named witnesses or parents' names. Patrick's baptism record listed Peter Farrelly and Anne Gorey as parents in Moynalty, Meath.

Following your lead, I checked Griffith's in Meath for Garry and Gorey and also in Cavan.  There were several, and also several named Gowran or McGowran.  Wow, could one name be butchered that badly?  The only common link I found at first glance was actually in Co Cavan, townland of Virginia, civil parish Lurgan, where Mary Garry and Catherine Farrelly lived next door to each other.  I am now thoroughly confused, but I'm getting a great lesson on Irish geography : )  I will check further and see if I can figure out anything else.

Peter Farrelly died before New York State began officially recording deaths in 1881.  His brother John did pass away after that in 1889, but there was no parent information or exact birthplace on his death certificate.

I will see if I can find Anne's obituary to ascertain which cemetery she was buried in.  In the meantime, many thanks for all of your assistance!

Lori

Hi Lori,

Only just logged on now and see your last message now.  Thanks for the Carnaross church record.  there are still farrellys in Carnaross parish. 

Glad you getting a geography lesson of North Meath, East Cavan. Hopefully there will be something at the end of it. Have you ever visited Ireland? Google Maps good for geography. Also try www.osi.ie, click "explore maps" and this will bring up a few options in a small black box to the right  of Ireland map.   There are maps linked to Griffiths valuation in www.askaboutireland.ie/griffithvaluations. The folio number is printed in the land parcel. You will usually be fit to pick out the same land parcel on google maps, unless a very progressive farmer had removed too may ditches. Sometimes Griffith maps do not download, as happened all last week to me or take a long time to download.

Yes you have to watch out for different versions of the name when you check church records.  Alot of people didn't read or write. The priest wrote up the church register, so the spelling of the name and if given the townland was the priest version of what he heard and how he thought it should be spelt. Depending on the state of the registers or the quality of the priest handwriting, then the person computering the register, had to make it out. If you have a name that is localised or not very common, then there is a higher risk of “butchering it” Another thing, I see is the priest writing down the incorrect first name or maiden name of the mother. Happens less often with the fathers first name. It is obvious when you have an index listing children on front of you

 If it was a mixed marriage, normally the non catholic converted to Catholicism prior to marriage and the family was reared catholic. I must check with the priest, you had to be confirmed (usually aged 9-12) to sponsor a child.  I'm not sure if a non catholic who had received confirmation in their church could sponsor a catholic child at baptism.  Normally a non catholic would not pass the threshold of a catholic church even for funerals until maybe 20 to 30 years ago. Things have all changed nowadays.

Normally www.rootsireland.ie do not record the baptism sponsors or marriage witnesses.  You have to refer to the original entry to obtain these. 

Another website that has church records and you can get more info free is the LDS/the Mormons at  www.familysearch.org.  At their home page, page down to bottom of page and click "United Kingdom and Ireland" dataset. Page down to Ireland databases and click "Ireland, birth & baptism 1620-1881" and search then.  I have got Moynalty entries on it before, but it is not a comphrensive dataset unlike RootsIreland. In RootsIreland check online sources and then just above the bullet points, click the link for online sources. It give the dates of records that are available by county. Moynalty Roman Catholic 1830-1900, Carnaross Roman Catholic 1805-1900, Lurgan Roman Catholic as best I recall was late 1700s-1900 with a few decades missing in 2 places.  Lurgan relates to the area surrounding Virginia town. In addition to parish records, there are 1821 Ireland censuses for a number of Co Cavan parishes.

Some counties are not computeries on rootsireland. go to www.irishgenealogy.ie for a few more counties. This website is free and usually has a PDF link to parish register entry.

I reviewed Moynalty catholic registers Wednesday.

Baptism

29 aug 1854 Pat to Peter Farrelly and Anne Gorry sponsors Phil fox, Anne Figan or Gargan? Attachment PICT1151

10 Mar 1845 Mary to Pat Gorry and Anne Carr. Sponsors James Callaghan and Peggy Carr. Attachment PICT1157

9 oct 1847 Anne Gorry, a note on it that I cannot make out. sponsors were patrick cassidy and margaret coldrick. Attachment Pict 1156

Marriage

4 feb 1834 Larry Walsh married Bridget Gorrey. witnesses  ? Walsh and Joseph Walsh. Attachment Pict 1161

I would not consider Gorden and Gorry the same name. I'd be inclined to think Gorry, Garry are catholic , Gowen, McGowen are catholic. I'd give precedence to searching Gordan/Gorden/Gordon first then  the other names you have identified.

Gorden search

I found the Bailieboro Presbyterian cemetery. There were no Gorden  headstones, at least the legible ones.  I’ll try Ervey Presbyterian church another day. I think there was a cemetery around it.  I haven't found any of the Gorden relatives from Killagriff or identified the location of there farms yet, per Griffiths list.  There are Church of Ireland Gordan families around Bailieboro. I have identified some people from one of these families, but did not contact them.

Did you check newspaper archives for death notices or obituaries, even for subsequent generations? If you get lucky, you may get cousins names. Did you try find john’s marriage to Mary Grace. Grace is not a common Irish surname either, if she was Irish.

Property transfers records are not computerised for Ireland yet.  I hope to get to Dublin in the next few weeks. I’ll look up Killagriff land records in the valuations office. Check www.valoff.ie for more information. They have a search service, if you wish to use them. Get a quote first as they will charge you the service. Property records all commence at Griffith valuations date. Most of my area went to 1966, but I knew the names at that stage or had a chance of getting answers from family or neighbours. I did see records go to 2000s.

Irelandxo.com sent  me details to set up an irelandxo e-mail address.  I let you have it when I get around to it. In the mean time, my own e-mail address in cmccormack_cmf@hotmail.com if you want to send to it for privacy rather than the bulleton board. There is an underscore in the middle of it, other people have been caught out!!

Regards

Catherine

Lori,

i also copied farrelly church index. i 'll go them another day and see if any thing else relevant to your search in them. 

Attached are gorry index. they are not of great quality, as I was using a digital camera on an A3 printout. If you enlarge them , they may be readable.

Catheine

Wow, am I reading the baptism record correctly for Anne Gorry???  "Made her profession of the RC faith"?  Is that a conversion?  Seems like it would be since the parents aren't mentioned.  Catherine, you may be right about her not originally being Catholic.  I will investigate further.  Thanks!

Lori

My Great Great Great Grandmother was Mary Farrelly she married Patrick Sheridan  they had from what I can ascertain 4 sons/ 3 sons lived Edward 2x Patrick and James

Born between 18444 and 1851

First Edward was born July 1844 

Second James June 1845 

Third Edward again October 19 1849

Fourth Patrick March 23 1851 

Does anyone know if they had more children and if any of the family on both sides still live in Moynalty

A long shot but mt Great Great Grandmother was Katie Murphy  born 1848?  her parents were John Murphy and Mary Doyle she was married to James    I dont know if they met here in NYC or in Meath   does that sound familiar?   I know the names are very common and is probably impossible to track  

Thanks Danny Sheridan NYC

DanielPSheridan@Gmail.com