Searching surnames Sloan, Dewar, Coates and McIlroy - Wicklow and area circa 1850-1900

Hi Bill

Here's the only James Sloan (& surname variants) around 1846 from www.rootsireland.ie/:

Name:James SloaneDate of Birth:24-Jul-1840

Date of Baptism:30-Aug-1840Address:DublinParish/District:DELGANYGender:MaleCountyCo. Wicklow

Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:James SloaneMother:Elizabeth

Here's a Sloane marriage to a Margaret around the right time for James from Dublin:

Date of Marriage:14-Jul-1875

Parish / District:BALLYBRACK
County:Co. Dublin

Husband
WifeName:JohnSloane
MargaretMurphyAddress:Dalkey
DalkeyDenomination:Roman Catholic
Roman CatholicOccupation:

Age:

Status:

Husband's Father
Wife's FatherName:JamesSloane
PatrickMurphyAddress:

Denomination:

Occupation:DALKEY
DALKEY

Husband's Mother
Wife's MotherName:JuliaNot Recorded
SaraNot RecordedAddress:

Denomination:

Occupation:

Witness 1
Witness 2Name:ThomasMaguire
ElizabethCullen

I couldn't find a Dewar marrying a Margaret until 1912 in Antrim which would make her 60 years old!

For some reason Gilfoy comes up in McIlroy searches so I wonder if the name was also spelt that way?

This is the only 1860 Dublin or Wicklow John McIlroy record bt there are some from other counties:

Name:John Howard GilfoyDate of Birth:23-Jul-1860

Date of Baptism:29-Jul-1860Address:KingstownParish/District:MARINERS CHURCHGender:MaleCountyCo. Dublin

Denomination:Church of Ireland
Father:James GilfoyMother:Elizabeth Not RecordedOccupation:Servant

Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:
Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:

Notes:

THOMAS WELLARD
SURNAME [IL]

This is the only Frances Pratt:

Name:Frances PrattDate of Birth:23-Apr-1873

Date of Baptism:01-Jul-1873Address:DrumconnickParish/District:CAVANGender:FemaleCountyCo. Cavan

Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:Abraham PrattMother:Frances PrattOccupation:Farmer

No luck with William Sloan

You might want to try www.irishgenealogy.ie/ which is a free site and is good for Dublin records.

Col

Hi Col - thank you for your quick reply. I will look over the information you provided and see how it fits with the information I already have. Thank you again.

Hi Col - I have looked at the information you sent in a bit more detail and have compared it to some of the records I have. Here is want I have come up with in terms of liklihood:

re. "James Sloan" - using the 1901 census, I worked backwards and determined that he was born in 1846, not 1840 as with the "James Sloane" you located. Also, James Sloan lists County Down as his place of birth in the 1901 census, rather than County Wicklow for "James Sloane". So I suspect "James Sloane" may not be an ancestor.

re. The marriage of James and Margaret Sloan, I suspect that this is not the correct record because of the difference in the spelling of the surname of James ("Sloane" vs. "Sloan") and religion - in the 1901 census, the religion of all the members of the family are listed as "Presbyterian", rather than "Roman Catholic".  Also, Margaret was born in Ayr, Scotland. I have yet to get into the Scottish records to trace Margaret's history - though without her maiden name, which I was hoping to glean from a marriage certificate, this will probably be difficult.

re. the Dewar records, I doubt that these are related.  According to the 1911 census records, Peter and Margaret were both born in Scotland. At least some of their older children were born in Scotland, so I suspect I will have to go to the Scottish records for a marriage certificate. I was hoping there might be some useful Irish records as well though - and indeed, yesterday I was able to locate through IrishGeneaology an 1890 baptismal record for "William Wilson Dewar", listed as the child of Peter (a "plumber" - agrees with the 1911 census record) and Margaret Martin Dewar (I wonder if "Martin" may be a Scottish family name of interest) of 5 Terrace Place, Dublin.  William does not show up in the 1901 or 1911 census records, so I suspect he died as a child. The 1911 census indicates 11 children born to Peter and Margaret, but only 8 surviving. The record I found had a link to a pdf. of the baptismal record where the bottom half of the record was fire charred! So cool.

re. Francis Pratt I strongly suspect that this is the correct person.  It seems the name is less usual in the Irish records. The date of birth (1873) is close to what I had determined would be her date of birth (1871).  I do find her father's name (Abraham Pratt) to be unusual for an Irish person. That certainly piques my interest.  Have you any suggestions for how I would locate a copy of the original baptismal record? Do you have any idea where the parish physical records would be currently housed and who would I contact to get a copy of the original.

Col, thank you so much again for your help so far.  While some of the records you located are probably not relevant to my search, some of them definitely were (as definite as I guess you can be for records this old).  That was a real help. Finding a link to the parents of Francis Pratt brings me back to the first set of my great-great grandparents - and for my children (for whom I am largely conducting this search - if I don't, it will be far more difficult for them), their great-great-great grandparents!

All the best,

Bill

Hi Bill

Here's an 1840 Down rcord for James:

Name:James SloanDate of Birth:25-Aug-1840

Date of Baptism:25-Sep-1840Address:TullyquillyParish/District:1ST RATHFRILAND PRESBYTERIANGender:MaleCountyCo. Down

Denomination:

Father:Joseph SloanMother:Elizabeth Mark

Original certs can be ordered from the GRO (Govt Records Office) but it's a tough site to navigate.

Col

Hi Col - thanks again for the reply. The County Down birth location meshes with my information for James Sloan, however I am still troubled by the difference in the year of birth. My great-great grandfather himself lists his age in the 1901 census as 55. That would make his date of birth 1846, rather than 1840. In your experience, are such differences reasonable - how would one explain them? Is it reasonable to assume that this is the correct James Sloan? I wonder about the population size of County Down in the 1840s and whether there would have been many families with the surname Sloan - enough to account for the possibility of two James Sloans being born within that six year span - thoughts? I am reluctant to run with the James born in 1840 being my ancestor where there is a discrepancy in the data.

By the way, I did some digging about Abraham Pratt. The information you provided listed his occupation as "farmer". I was able to find an Abraham Pratt in the 1901 census listed as a "retired farmer" living as a "widowed" boarder with a family in Killynenagh, County Monaghan. He was 74 at the time of the 1901 census; born in 1827. He disappears from the 1911 census. I couldn't find any death record between 1901 and 1911 for him unfortunately. I found a record for the marriage of Abraham Pratt to Frances Black in County Cavan in 1863. Because he was a farmer, I found three property listings (County Cavan) where he was a tenant in Griffith's Valuation. I also found some Petty Court documents detailing rent disputes. Even more surprisingly, I think I found dog licence records for him! I will look at these records again before accepting the presumption that these documents are all related the the same Abraham Pratt, but I think they probably are - the timelines and the locations seem reasonable.

Regards,

Bill

Hi Bill

Frustratingly the records can be inaccurate for several reasons:

inaccurate transcriptions; illiteracy / lack of correct info on the part of the informant; personal whim (putting age up or down to suit one's fancy) etc.

Having said that, I had another look for James and there are 17 matches for 1846 + - 5 years but all except these are R C:

Name:James SloanDate of Birth:

Date of Baptism:09-Feb-1847Address:MagheralinParish/District:MagheralinGender:
CountyCo. Down

Denomination:Church of Ireland
Father:Thomas SloanMother:MargaretOccupation:Weaver

Name:James P SloanDate of Birth:

Date of Baptism:01-Apr-1848Address:FarranafadParish/District:LOUGHINISLANDGender:MaleCountyCo. Down

Denomination:Church of Ireland
Father:Adam SloanMother:HesterOccupation:Farmer

Name:James SloaneDate of Birth:

Date of Baptism:20-Aug-1848Address:Cherry Valley ComberParish/District:ComberGender:
CountyCo. Down

Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:Hugh SloaneMother:JaneOccupation:Farmer

So now the decision is whether he could have been C of I or always Presbyterean but the birth year is wrong?

Col

Switching back to the Sloan family mentioned in the initial post - I'm presuming this family in Bray is your connection :

Sloan household, Balances Lane, Bray 1901
Sloan household, Somerset Ave., Bray 1911

There's no sign that I can find of baptisms for any of the three children in any of the Church of Ireland transcripts for North Wicklow on RootsIreland (subscription site). There was a Presbyterian Church in the town back to the 1870s at least so maybe that's where they were baptised ?

There are probable matches for the two girls on the Civil birth Index, and a less certain match for the Son William. All are in the Rathdown district which covered parts of North Co. Wicklow including the town of Bray, in addition to parts of South East Co. Dublin.

(Margaret Sloan - est. yob 1886 to 1889 based on census)

Name : Margaret Sloane
Event Type : Birth
Quarter and Year : Jan-Mar 1887
Registration District : Rathdown
Volume 2 / Page : 844

(Annie yob c1881)

Name           Annie Sloan
Event Type           Birth
Quarter and Year   Jul - Sep 1878
Registration District           Rathdown
Volume : 2 / Page : 893

No likely birth matches for a William Sloan in south Dublin or North Wicklow, but a possible match under the middle name he used. 

(William yob c1880)

Name : David Sloane
Event Type :   Birth
Quarter and Year : Jul - Sep 1879
Registration District  : Rathdown
Volume : 2 / Page : 921

You can order research certs. from the GRO by post or Fax using the references above, these cost €4. See option 1 at this link 

I think given how uncommon the surname is in the area that it would be worth trying a couple of the certs, as a match would give you Margaret's maiden name, which would to assist in marriages searches for James & Margaret. If they married in Ireland then a marriage cert would include father's names and occupations which should help confirm, or rule out, any possible baptisms located for them, and if by any chance they married in Scotland then one of their civil marriage certs would include names of both their parents.

There's also a likely death for Margaret :

Name : Margaret Sloan
Event Type :          Death
Quarter and Year : Oct - Dec 1908
Registration District : Rathdown
Reported Age 56 (est. year of birth  1852)
Volume : 2 / Page : 651

There's also a possible Sloan connection in Bray on the census returns, not just by surname but matching county of birth, denomination and with the same trade in 1901 i.e. 'Car Proprieter', a John Sloan with Wife Mary Grove at Sloan Terrace in 1901 and 1911

In Thom's 1910 Sloan Terrace is shown as two houses on Meath Road, heads of Houshold at that time Alexander & John, Somerset Ave, is off Meath Road and heads towards the coast, Balances Lane is not listed so likely a small side street.

Hi Col - Though all members of the family in the 1901 census are listed as Presbyterian, I received an email reply from Brian White of the Bray Cualann Historical Society in May where he told me that "In the parish records there are two families called Sloane, James and Margaret and they had 3 children William David born in 1879, Sarah Anne born in 1880 and Margaret Elizabeth born 1887. The second family, John and Mary Groves and their children ... all the births were registered in St. Pauls COI, Bray" (my emphasis). I am assuming that Mr. White means that the children of both families were registered at St. Pauls. If so, the Church of Ireland religious affiliation is reasonable. Incidentally, in the 1901 census Sarah Anne was listed by "Annie" and Margaret Elizabeth was listed by "Maggie". I recall my mother telling me that William David normally went by "David". I am not sure what parish St. Pauls would have been identified with when it was in use as a COI church. I looked online and it appears that it is back in use as a multi-faith church after being used as a commercial workshop of some sort. I stumbled on a list of the headstones of St. Pauls - no Sloans listed unfortunately - though there may also be a listing for the newer part (circa. 1910 forward) that I am trying to track down. I will try and track down the parish records in the hope they provide more information on James and Margaret. Thanks agai. Best regards.

Hi shanew147 - Thank you as well for your reply.  As I posted to Col, I think the baptisms of the children of James and Margaret Sloan might well be recorded in the St. Pauls registers, which I understand have survived.  I thought they could be found at the RootsIreland website, though your message would indicate not. I agree that I might have to order copies of some of these documents to get further in my search. Before I did, I was hoping to narrow the search. For instance, I have found a number of record transcriptions for possible marriages between a James Sloan and a fiancee with the first name Margaret. I narrowed the time period for such a search to between 1866 and 1879 - James would have been 20 in 1866 and their child William David (my paternal grandfather) was born in 1879 or 1880. I found at least nine. I think the death record for Margaret makes sense. She shows up in the 1901 census as aged 48 and disappears from the 1911 census (when James identifies as a widower). In 1908 she would have been 56 or 56. The connection to John Sloan is interesting - maybe this will become clearer if I am able to get more information on James.  Thank you again for your suggestions and new leads. Best regards, Bill.

St.Paul's was the parish Church for the Church of Ireland parish of Bray. Historic Records for most CofI parishes, including Bray,  are held the the Representative Church Body Library in Rathfarnham, Co. Dublin. Records for this parish go back to 1670 for baptism and marriages, and to 1666 for death burials. RootsIreland definitely have CofI transcripts from around this timeframe, as some of my own ancestors were baptised in the same parish.

p.s. CofI (or Presbyterian) baptism records dont usually include mother's surname, so locating a baptism may not help narrow down the marriage.

Hello shanew147 - thanks again for the reply. I think that (with the help of others on the RootsChat website) I have found Margaret's maiden name through civil record transcriptions on the FamilySearch website - "Watt", which is great, given what you have just told me about the mothers maiden name being absent from the baptismal records. I imagine that I will still pursue getting copies of the baptismal records to have the documants, so thanks for the guidance on where to find them. best regards, Bill.