CARROLAN/CAROLAN/CARLIN, Peter
My name is Jill and I am writing from Canada searching the Carlin/Carolan lineage through Tyrone Ireland to Forfarshire, Scotland.
I have a marriage certificate between a Peter Carrolan and an Ann Ro(d)gers who were married on June 30 1856 in Forfarshire, Scotland. Peter's age is listed as 22 which (mathematically) would indicate he was born in 1834 to a Hugh Carolan and Mary Cassidy both born in Ireland.
The 1861 census for Forfarshire shows Peter and family. His age is recorded as 31 (which indicates a 1830 birth) It also shows a Peter as a patient in the Dundee Royal Infirmary (I didn't think a person could be recorded in two places on the same census....?)
The 1871 census for Forfarshire shows Peter and family. His age is recorded as 40. So far, so good. THEN
The 1881 census (same place) shows Peter and family. His age is recorded as 43 !!!
His wife in 1861 is Agnes. His wife in 1871 is Ann and in 1881 it is Ann. Did Peter remarry?
I have tried Rootsireland, Family Search, My Heritage and FindMyPast websites to find Peter born to this couple. No luck.
Any suggestions/clarifications would be MOST welcome!. Thanks so much. Jill
Jeffsfamilies
Friday 7th Jul 2023, 11:08PMMessage Board Replies
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Even up to the late 19th century, most people in Ireland had only a general sense of when they were born, and civil birth records didn't begin until 1864, so ages or birth years as stated in censuses and other records should be viewed with caution. Parish registers of baptisms can generally be trusted, although the baptismal date may differ a good bit from the birth date, because children were sometimes baptized days or even weeks after birth, particularly when it was difficult to reach a church right away.
There were two Ulster surnames which ended up anglicized as Carolan, Carlin, or Carlan. In Derry and Tyrone, the Irish form was Ó Cairealláin, and in Cavan the Irish from was Ó Cearbhalláin. Both mean "descendant of Cearbhall [Carroll]", Cearbhall being an older Gaelic version of the name Charles which largely fell out of use, but has been revived in more modern times.
kevin45sfl
Saturday 8th Jul 2023, 07:58PM -
Thanks Kevin. Will attempt to narrow down which parish within the county.
Jeffsfamilies
Monday 10th Jul 2023, 01:26AM -
You mention people being recorded in the census twice. That did happen. Some folk filled the form out days before census night, and then if someone expected to be at home that night actually wasn’t eg because they were in hospital, people didn’t always update the form. I saw one recently for the 1911 Irish census where a worker at the Guinness brewery in Dublin was recorded in the brewery (presumably on a night shift on census night) as well as at home.
You mention Peter’s wife being Agnes and then Ann. Agnes and Ann are interchangeable names in both Ireland and Scotland so it may well be the same lady. Another variant of Ann/Agnes is Nancy. You might find her called that too.
Scottish marriage and death certificates were pretty meticulous about recording whether parents were alive or dead. So what information is on that 1856 marriage cert? If either Hugh or Mary were dead it should say “dcd” after their name. If alive there will be no annotation. Knowing whether they were alive or dead in 1856 may help trace them in Tyrone. Also what was Hugh's occupation, according to that certificate?
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Monday 10th Jul 2023, 03:30PM -
Thank you Elwyn. The Scottish marriage certificate indicates both Hugh and Mary Cassidy alive in 1856 when Peter married. Hugh's occupation was "labourer".
I have uncovered a Philip and Mark, sons of a Hugh Carolan and Mary Cassidy born in Cavan. These could possibly be Peter's brothers.
The stickler is that the 1861 Scottish census shows my Peter as a patient in the Royal Dundee Infirmary where his birthplace is recorded as Tyrone.
Consequently I am checking Griffiths for both counties. As well I am investigating family research societies in both counties.
Any other suggestions welcomed.
Jeffsfamilies
Sunday 16th Jul 2023, 12:22AM -
Death registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864 so if Hugh or Mary died before that there will be no record. I searched the records for Tyrone & Cavan for Hugh Carolan/Carlin deaths 1864 – 1901, for someone borne 1810 or earlier.
There was this one who was a farmer in Fallagh, Tyrone. So wrong profession.
Another farmer:
There are 2 more that are not on-line free (years 1864 – 1870 haven’t been put on-line yet). One died in Gortin in 1868 aged 80, the other in Armagh in 1867 aged 68. (The Armagh registration district takes in part of Tyrone). You can view them on the GRONI site for £2.50 a cert. https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk
I didn’t see any deaths in Co Cavan.
There are 257 Mary Carlin deaths in that period. Age and location should eliminate most. A labourer’s widow here whose age is a little too low but most ages then were just guesses. An error of 10 years would be quite common.
A labourer in Gortin:
Possibly DNA testing may be a way of matching with others who have additional information about where the family originate. Family Tree DNA reportedly has more people with Ulster roots than any other company. That obviously increases the chances of finding a match. You might want to try them or, if you have already tested, you can transfer your results to them for no fee.
The North of Ireland Family History Society is running an Ulster DNA project in conjunction with FTDNA and can offer testing kits at a reduced price. http://www.nifhs.org (Go to DNA project on the website).
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Sunday 16th Jul 2023, 08:58PM