Margaret McBride (Percy/Pearcy)

MBurns,

RC marriages were only recorded in the statutory marriage records from 1864 onwards. William & Margaret evidently married well before that, and so you won’t get a civil marriage certificate for them. But even if you did, they didn’t record mothers names. 

I have searched the RC parish records on Ancestry but did not find their marriage. If it’s any consolation RC marriage records from that period ie 1850s, rarely have parents names. Usually all you normally get is the date, the couples names and their 2 witnesses. I couldn’t see any of their childrens baptisms apart from Patrick. Dromore RC’s records start in 1835 but perhaps the couple were living in a parish which has no records for the 1850s and early 1860s. (William was a labourer and they tended to move about a bit to follow available work).

The tithe applotment records for Crossan list Terence McBride farming there in 1826:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/tyrone/tithe-applotment-books/parish-of-kilskeery.php

There were several other McBride farms in the townland. The RC baptism & marriage records for Kilskeery don’t start till 1840 so you probably won’t find a marriage for Terence, as he presumably married around 1810-1820.

In the 1901 census, there were 13 houses in Crossan, and a total population of 49 people. The various McBrides in the townland are likely to be related. 

Griffiths Valuation (1860) lists Terence McBride on plot 9 in Crossan. That was an 11 acre farm. According to the Valuation Revision records on the PRONI website, it remains in his name till 1876 when it passes to Francis. That ties in pretty well with Terence’s death in 1873. The Griffiths clerks only revisited every few years and the date in their records is when they learned of a change, rather than when it actually occurred.  But that, plus the 1901 census, shows that Margaret’s father was Terence McBride as per her Scottish Poor Law application.

The 1869 death certificate must contain a mistake. The lady could not be “married” and a “farmer’s widow” simultaneously.  One of those must be incorrect. Probably the Registrar meant to write “Farmer’s wife”.  That’s the only explanation I can offer. (Mistakes on certificates are quite common. Patrick’s marriage certificate has a mistake in that his father’s surname is given as Crosson, not McBride! However it does inadvertently tell us where he came from.). Given her age and the fact that there were only a limited number of McBrides in Crossan, I’d say it’s very likely to be Terence’s wife, particularly since he was the informant.

I can’t think of any documentation that’s likely to exist in Ireland that would show Grace’s maiden name. Scottish death certificates show both parents names, as do those of some other countries, but Irish ones then didn’t.  There’s no obvious reason why Margaret should lie or not know her own mother’s name in her Poor Law application, so I’d be inclined to accept it as accurate. Not every Irish family followed the traditional naming pattern. The absence of any Graces in Patrick  & Margaret’s children is not conclusive. Maybe they didn’t get on well with their mother? 

The surname Stars/Starrs is common enough in Tyrone. In the 1901 census there were about 100.

Here’s Patrick Percy’s 1865 birth certificate:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03585/2321599.pdf

I don’t see any other children after that so he must have been the last.

Elwyn.

Thank you for your quick and helpful reply. It is much appreciated.

I often wonder why Patrick only named his sons after his brothers...not his father. He did join the RIC at 20 so perhaps that was not accepted by his parents. However, it appears Margaret also did not get on with them.

I am thinking Grace's age,80, as reported on her death certificate is incorrect as she would have been 42 when Ellen was born which is possible of course but then 52/53 when Margaret and Patrick were born! 70 years old is more likely. Or perhaps she and Terry 'adopted' youngsters from other families. I know one of my great-uncles from Moorfield was a twin, born into a large family so his Aunt and Uncle brought him up from birth. He would probably refer to them as his parents...'adopted'. Without marriage and birth certificates there is so much we cannot confirm and other details we will never know.

Thank you again for your research, the links and your thoughts.

Maureen

Maureen,

I am sure you are right about Grace’s age. In general, people in Ireland in the 1800s didn’t celebrate birthdays, didn’t have birth certificates or passports (though they might sometimes have had a baptismal cert) and often had little accurate idea of their age. Most ages on official documents were just a guess. An error of 10 years or more for someone in their 70s or 80s would be very common. No-one really knew or cared much. No proof of age or other documentation was required when registering a death or a marriage (nor would any have been available in many cases).

I have attached a letter which I found in parish records in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast from someone in Pettigoe, Co. Donegal in 1908 writing to his Minister, asking for proof of age (ie a baptismal certificate). All he knew was that he was between “70 and 78 years of age.” He clearly had only the vaguest idea and couldn’t narrow it down to within 9 years. (The likely reason for the letter was that the old age pension was being introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over. Documentary proof of age was required. Thus, probably for the first time in his life, establishing his age accurately became relevant to him).

I wouldn't leap to any conclusions about joining the RIC being a reason for a family rift. It was a much sought after job and came with a pension when few other occupations did. 85% of the RIC were RC same as Patrick, and by and large policing work was not that controversial. If you look through the newspaper reports, it was mostly dealing with drunks, occasional petty thefts, straying animals, illicit whiskey making, neighbour disputes and the odd fight. Riding bicycles at night without lights seemed to cause a lot of bother too. Those sorts of issues were the main business of the day for much of the time.

Regarding naming of children, as I say not every family followed the traditional naming convention.  And if there was a family rift, then that could be one explanation.

Hello Elwyn

I hope you don't mind me posing another query re the McBrides.  Michael McCaughey wrote in Around Trillick Way, that ......."The cinema was a big thing when it arrived and when two were opened in Fintona in the late 1940s, there was an immediate upsurge in cinema goers here. …………. Fintona was a leader in the entertainment world in those days, with a fine hall and two new cinemas. The hypnotist who- came there in the 1940s and had some smart lads from here on stage with him, lapping into onions as if they were oranges, created quite a stir. Paddy McBride of Crossan nearly joined up with him, believing he had the power himself and, when suitably lubricated, gave quite a performance with 'the power's on'. "

This Paddy McBride may have been my grandfather as my father's cousin who lives in Omagh told me that as a young boy he would be riding out in the lanes with friends and come across my grandfather.  They would ask him to demonstrate his 'powers' then immediately go into fits of laughter at his attempts, alll in good fun.

I am wondering if the above extract my have been the result of a newspaper report, and if so, which likely newspaper and  where I could search for a copy. I guess I am searching for the impossible...a photo of my grandfather.

Many thanks.

Maureen Mulligan

Maureen,

Papers covering the Tyrone area include the Tyrone Constitution, Tyrone Courier & Ulster Herald. There were obviously numerous other Irish papers with a wider circulation.

I searched on the British Newspaper Archive (which contains a lot of Irish papers) for Paddy McBride + Crossan + hypnotism and various combinations of those but did not find anything. Belfast Central Library (on Royal Ave) has back copies of many Irish papers. Free to view.

Many thanks for your trouble, Elwyn. Another avenue I can put aside.

Maureen

Hello Maureen Burns & Elwyn (IrelandXO Volunteer 

I read your posts on IrelandXO website after searching County Tyrone posts. 

Maureen Burns, are we related? Are you located in the United States? 

John W.Lovett & Isabella McBrde (daughter of Patrick McBride) married  in County Tyrone between 1820-1823. John Lovett was a Weaver in Philadelphia.  They both immigrated to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA  abt. 1832-1834 with their children and Isabella McBride’s brother, Alex McBride (County Tyrone, born abt 1811).

My 4th Great Grandmother, Isabella McBride (Kilskeery,Tyrone,Ireland,born abt. 1801) and 4th Great Grandfaher, John W.Lovett (born abt. 1790) were married in County Tyrone between 1820-1823. Roman Catholic Church. Their marriage produced many children including Patrick H. (County Tyrone, born abt. 1823), John R (Scotland, born abt. 1825) Terence (County Tyrone, born abt. 1828), Catharine (County Tyrone, born abt. 1830), Alexander H. (County Tyrone, born abt.1832).

I am not very experienced with the IrelandXO website. 

Best wishes,

Bill Van Horn

bvh2222@yahoo.com

New Jersey, USA
 

Hello Bill. 

I have sent you an email today

Regards

Maureen Mulligan (Burns), Perth, Western Australia