William Leonard & Mary Ryan born 1827-1829

Hello Brian,

Log on to www.rootsireland.ie and go down the left side of the screen to find County genealogy centre. Click on this and it will bring you to a map.  Click SOUTH Tipperary.  this will bring you to the Bru Boru heritage centre.

If you look for the birth record of Catherine Leonard and include the fathers name and mothers surname only, you will find the birth record in St. marys Clonmel.

Catherine Leonard b. 1848 Co. Tipperary.

You will need to pay to view this but it is only about €5

I looked for a marriage record for William and Mary in Co. Tipperary but couldn't find it, so I went back to the main menu which searches all ireland.  I found their marriage record in Co. Waterford in 1846.

I then went to the co waterford heritage site and put in the information again, I found their record in the parish of St. Marys Clonmel.

You may be aware that Clonmel is right on the border of Tipperary and Waterford and the parish of St. Marys covers both sides of the river.

If you view this record it may give you the names of their parents and hopefully an address.

If you get any more information regarding a placename, please get in touch and I'll be able to tell you where it is.  I live here in Clonmel and would like to help if I can.  The name Leonard is not your usual run of the mill name so the search is that much easier.

Look forward to hearing from you,

Regards, Anne

Hello Anne,

Thank you very much for your rapid and most useful reply.  Using your advice, I have now located and downloaded the relevant baptism and marriage documents from the Roots Ireland website.  I now realise that I had already been close to finding these on earlier internet searches; your information about the two parts of the St. Marys parish was the clue I had missed.

In reading the downloaded marriage certificate, I now have the final detail that confirms our Irish heritage once and for all.  The names are the same as shown on subsequent census returns from Liverpool in our established family tree.  It is now apparent that William, Mary and daughter Catherine emigrated to England between 1848 and 1850.  We assume that they came over to escape the famine of the 1840s.  Is this probable?  Do you know if many people left the Clonmel area at this time?  I have also read about the wretched conditions in the area of Liverpool  where they stayed in the 1850s.  It must have been an “out of the frying pan into the fire” situation for them.

Unfortunately the downloaded documents do not contain any details of the parents of William Leonard and Mary Ryan.  This would be my next step for research, if possible.  In your opinion, is there any chance of retrieving this information?  Do the church records exist for the 1820s?

As I said in the earlier message, I shall be coming to Clonmel in August with my wife, sister and her family.  Would we be able to carry out research on this visit, perhaps in the Bru Boru heritage centre?

Finally, you may be pleased to hear that my children, grandchildren and cousins are delighted to know that part of our family originate from the town where Magners Cider is made.  Although I know that the production started well after our ancestors’ departure, they spotted the references to Clonmel in the TV adverts which Bulmers use to run in the UK.

Once more, thank you for your most valued assistance.

Best Regards,

Brian

Hello Brian,

If you go to the home page of www.rootsireland.ie and click on the" source list of the genealogy centres" this will tell you what records are held in the churches and what dates they cover.

The church has allowed the rootsireland website to copy their records so that people wouldn't be trawling through the original register books.  Many parish priests hold different views on the privacy of these records.  You could be lucky and find a priest that may help you or you may find the opposite reaction.

The records for St. Marys in Clonmel start at 1790 which is quite early.  As you may know most Irish records and census were destroyed in a fire in the Four Courts in Dublin in 1922.  So we don't have the luxury that you may have in England of all the wonderful repositeries of records.

The church records that have been transcribed for the rootsireland website were sent abroad and on some occasions parts were left out, so it may be worth your while in asking to go through the registers in St. Marys.  It's difficult when you don't have parents names as it will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.  But for your own peace of mind it's better to followback as far as you can, and only then will you be content that you've done all you can.

Was there any address on the records that you viewed?

What was the name of the first born son?  Very often he was called after the paternal grandfather, so there may be a clue there.

The bru boru centre have the same records as the website so I don't think you'll find too much there.

The parish priest of St. Marys Church in Irishtown is Fr. Billy Meehan.  He is a very nice man and even though I don't know his views on people looking through the registers, I would advise that you have a chat with him.

You could say that you want to double check the records you have to see if anything is there that wasn't transcribed.  I would say go to the church before the 10 o clock morning mass and see how you get on.  They are so busy now because of the shortage of priests and they would have to supervise anybody who was looking at the books.

 I have a friend who is a priest in another part of the country and he never minded anybody having a look at the registers.  But one day some americans came and asked to see them and he gave them full access while he said mass. When he was finished mass, he found the americans had left along with one whole page of the register.  So not only did they get their own records but the records of about 30 more people.  He said it was the biggest lesson he ever had on trusting people.  So you can see why they are not in favour of just anybody having a gander.

Anyway Brian, best of luck in your search,

Let me know if I can help in any way,

regards, Anne