Navins, Donohue and Burnables/Barnables - Ballingarry, Tipperary to New South Wales

rcameron:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I will alert our parish liaison For Ballingarry about your message.

Roger McDonnell

Hi, this is the info I found.
Griffiths Valuation would give the tax and rents paid. John Navin, in Loughkeen. This is the return info. Parsonstown is now called Birr. It is not far from Ballingarry.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&familyname=navin&firstname=First+Name&baronyname=&countyname=TIPPERARY%2C+NORTH+RIDING&unionname=&parishname=&Submit.x=34&Submit.y=6

this is a map for Loughkeen, as you will see Ballingarry is to the left.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=LOUGHKEEN+ireland+map&qs=n&form=QBRE&sp=-1&pq=loughkeen+ireland+map&sc=0-21&sk=&cvid=CAC3FEF35DE94AF09F7434C5EE8F4805

On the same map you will see Borrisokane, this is where I am from well between Nenagh and Borrisokane. Now I live in Wales.

this record below states

(Tipp) which is for Tipperary Town, but also has your names mentioned.

DONOHUE Morgan         1860    18      (Tipp)  xx Ref=Richard MANSAGH, at      Greamehouse.   Paid for by John NEVIN.        Ship =  Fitz James

I hope this is a help.
Margot

Hi Margot.  That is marvellous information.  That definately must be my Morgan Donohue and John Nevin.  He did come on the Fitz James to NSW.  I'm away on holidays at the beach at the moment and reading this on my phone.  I can't wait to get back home to look at the links you posted.  Thank you.  If I wanted to get more information about Morgan's family in Ireland what resources would you think would be good to research?  Do you know if there were any newspapers that covered that area during that period.  I'm wondering if there might be some reports of their farewll from the Ballingarry area?  What do you think?  Thanks again for your great help Margot.  Cheers Richard

Hi Richard,
​Send me a message when you get home as there are lots of places to look.
​Margot

Hi Richard,

I'm the Ireland Reaching Out Parish Liaison for Ballingarry (Slieveardagh) and from reading your post and looking at the response you got from Margot she appears to be directing you to the wrong parish. There are two Ballingarry's in County Tipperary - one in the south of the county (Ballingarry, Slieveardagh) and one in the north. A John Navin and Mary or Margaret Barnables/Barnable were living in Ballingarry Slieveardagh, which is in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Cashel and Emly, and a John was born in 1842 as you stated. Are you certain this is the right family? How did you know his parents names? It would be unusual for someone from Sligo to settle in Ballingarry as it is the other end of the country. I noticed on the baptism register that the placename Farranrory is noted. I looked at the Griffiths Valuation (covers the period 1847-1864) and there is a John 'Navan' recorded as a tenant of a William Corcoran.Griffiths Valuation does not include ages or other members of the household.

Were the family miners? The only reason someone from outside of the area would settle was if they came to work in the coalmines in the Ballingarry area. Further checks of the Irish 1901 Census was negative for Navins (and variants) in the Ballingarry area. It looks like the family moved from the area - you mentioned that John remarried to a Bridgit Houlihan who was born in Limerick and that they had 2 other sons. Were the sons born in Co. Limerick? If any further details come to light I'd be happy to have a look and let you know whether you can discount it or not.

I don't know if this has helped but you can contact me direct by email on ballingarry@irelandxo.com 

Best wishes,

Noreen

Hi Noreen

Thanks for your email and I know it has taken forever for me to respond.  I had good intentions but life got in the way as they say. 

Yes I'm pretty sure my John Navin was living in Farranory, near Ballingarry (Slieveardagh) when his son John was born.  And there is some evidence that he was originally from Sligo because I have a newspaper report here saying that his two brothers visited from Sligo just before he and Bridget left for New South Wales.

I"m not sure why he moved from Sligo to Ballingarry.  I had heard the reports that a number of miners moved into the area, but unfortunately have not been able to confirm if that was the case with John.  

I'm assuming Margaret Barnable died, and hence the marriage to Bridget Houlihan around 1857. I'm not sure where they married but John and Bridget had two boys: 

• Denis in May 1853 and baptised at Baptised in Ballingarry 11/5/1853 (1849/225).  Name recorded as John Nevin.  Parents recorded as John Nevin and Bridget Houlihan and
• Edward Francis born in 1855 and Baptised in Ballingarry 1/2/1856.  Recorded as Edmund Nevin

In 1858 they moved to New South Wales.   30 December 1858 Arrived in Sydney with his second wife, Bridget Bridgit b abt 1822 on "Admiral Lyons" accompanied by Denis (6) and Edmund (3), half brothers to John Nevin. 
   John was listed on the Unassisted Passenger lists as a farm labourer, Roman Cath b in Ballingarry.  Bridgit was listed as born in Limerick.

I'd be very interested Noreen if you can suggest any other evidence.  I have never been able to find the death records of Margaret Barnables or information about Bridget Houlihan.  Bridget apparently had a son through another relationship called Morgan Donohoe b abt 1840 in Clonmel.

Thank you again for your assistance Noreen.

Best wishes

Richard Cameron

Hi, I saw this reply this morning.
​When I don't have replies, after 6 months I delete any info I gather.
​I have searched again for you, I knew there are 2 Ballingarry's but as you ementioned Morgan's sister born in Ashgrove, Terryglass I took it as being the Ballingarry in Tipperary North. (Stupid me!)
So this is what I have.............some info you have since obtained.

NAVIN   John           1858    35      (Tipp)  xx {+ wife =Bridget ,36 of LIM.}        {&sons Dennis,6&Edmund ,3.}  IDJ-Pd Wm English?,Balmain.     Ship =  Admiral Lyons
​**** Paid for by William English, Do you know who he is? they were on the same NAME ship, but a year earlier, this is his record.
ENGLISH William 1857 25 Tipp / Tipp Thomas / Catherine - Mother dea d, Father on board . {also Ellen,18 & Margaret,7.} Ship = Admiral Lyons
 

NEVIN   John           1861    16      Tipp / Tipp    xx ("To come out under care of        Winifred DOGHERTY.")   Paid for by John Nevin .       Ship =  Nile

***** Is this John's son John and do you know of this Winifred Dogherty?

The marriage………….it says that the townland was Farnrory Ballingarry, the correct spelling is Farranrory Lower, north and a bit east of Ballingarry.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61039/02492_06_0121?pid=8747210&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D61039%26h%3D8747210%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3Dnsh19351%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nsh19351&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

In the Tithe record’s  Patrick (Pat) Barnable was paying Tax/Rent there. This is to the East of Ballingarry.
​Is this Margaret's Father?

Surname   Forename   Townland/Street   Parish         County       Year

Barnable   Pat               Ballintagart            Ballingarry     Tipperary    1834

You were looking for information on Margaret's Death, sorry but Death records were only recorded after 1864 when the Civil Records were introduced.  There are some in Church Parish Books but you are just lucky if you find any.

Can you log into this site (it's free) and search for the Barnable people. They are in the same area as Ballingarry, the Registration Districts come under Callan which is in County Kilkenny as these places border the 2 Counties.

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie
 Cheers
Margot

Hi Margot

Thanks for all your information.  You have given me a couple of new pieces of information in your reply.

Margaret Barnables

You asked what I know about Margaret Barnables.  Unfortunately, not a lot.  I don’t know her parents or siblings.  I know that she married John Navin in 1842 in Ballingarry.  When I visited Ballingarry I was told that the Barnables were one of the Palatine refugee families who escaped to Tipperary from Europe.

I have decided that what I could do is build up a tree of as many Barnables from the Ballingarry and nearby areas that I can find.  I am using the link you gave me to help build that database:  https://www.irishgenealogy.ie.  I'm hoping that database might allow me to find some family links for Margaret.

When working in the site above I found a number of Barnables under Civil Registrations based on Callan.  However I could find no Barnables under the church records for Ballingarry.  That seemed a bit strange.  Do you agree there are no such records?  Also would you suggest any other set of church records that ;might be relevant for the Barnables other than Ballingarry Church?

Palatine refugees.  Is there any local knowledge about the Palatine refugees in Tipperary?  Were they mainly famers and in which part of Tipperary were they mainly located, Margot?

William English.  I had totally missed that entry showing that William English had paid John Navin’s  passage.  I wonder why he would have been involved?  In your notes what does the term IDJ – PD refer to?  I take it the PD is “paid”??

I had no knowledge of William English.  Do you know of any other source of information on William English?  I will start researching that new information at this end.

Thanks again Margot for your help on this.  Much appreciated.

Cheers

Richard

Hi Richard, sorry for the delay in repling, PC did a hicky fit from updates and I couldn't log in to any sites.
You asked .................. and here are answers..............
 

Two links with information about Palatines

https://www.dochara.com/the-irish/surnames/hueguenot-palatine-names-in-ireland/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mitchelstown/4555538207/

########

8th from the bottom on the right hand page this is from the Church records of Ballingarry.

I search in Ancestry and then go to the Church books, it’s easier. (only until the end of May then I am ending my membership)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61039/02492_06_0121?pid=8747210&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D61039%26h%3D8747210%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3Dnsh20960%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=nsh20960&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

I may have sent the above the before.

#######

Callan……this would be the registration district,  areas overlap counties depending on which set of records you view. If you get a map of Callan, County Kilkenny you will find Ballingarry to the left and slightly north.

#######

IDJ       I think this is from the Individual Deposit Journal Books.

Yes and PD is paid.

In Ancestry some show as Ship records, some as Deposit Books, some as Deposit Returns, it’s just a case of digging. The records for travel to Australia are very detailed.
 

Thomas English the father of William, on William's ship record says his father was with them……this is his record

ENGLISH Thomas         1857    48      Tipp / Tipp    Thomas / Johanna - both dead        (widower)   Dau=Mary E. at     Lyndhurst College , Glebe .    Ship =  Admiral Lyons

Churuch records.....depends on what years they have, 1834/5 is when Churches were built built or rebuilt, it's just a matter of looking at the site....
https://registers.nli.ie
to see any matches. 

I hope this is a help.
Any questions please ask.
Cheers
Margot