Peter McDermott (Roscommon) and Catherine McDermott (Toy) (Mayo) and their children Francis and Mary

Hello, Louise.

Was Francis Ambrose who travelled with his parents to Tasmania the same child as Francis William whose birth certificate states he was born in Worcestershire in 1855? Which names are on the birth certificate? What record is the name Francis Ambrose on? 3 names for a child born at that time is imo unusual. I thought one middle name may have been a Confirmation name but not if he was only 4 years old. Was Catherine Mary a different child from Catherine Matilda? 

Have you searched for the marriage of Peter McDermott and Catherine in England? Civil registrations of births, marriages and deaths began in England in 1837. If they married in England there should be a record.

Do you know what religious denomination Peter and Catherine were? 

Have you looked for Peter, Catherine or Bridget on 1851 English census? As you know, there's always a problem with spelling of surnames, especially a name like McTighe. What about other family members possibly left behind in and around Oldbury?

Is this birth registration of Francis McDermott? Mother's maiden name Toy. GRO reference  1855 S quarter West Bromwich.   I tried to search for possible siblings but GRO website started misbehaving again as it has done lately for me.

Possible marriage of Peter and Catherine: 1854 July-August-September quarter; West Bromwich; Catherine TYE. One of the names on same page of register was Peter MACKDEMRMOTT. (That's the how the name was transcribed on the site I looked at.) Volume 6B page 873. West Bromwich came under Staffordshire record set. Staffordshire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire are adjacent  counties. 

Midland Ancestors is a family history society which covers Staffordshire, Warwickshire and Worcestershire.

https://midland-ancestors.uk 

Local family history societies may have members who have researched Irish-West Midlands links. Surnames list on Midland Ancestors is viewable by members only.

 Oldbury, which was on birth cert of Francis, is next to West Bromwich. 

2 free BMD sites for West Midlands region.

West Midlands BMD    www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk

Staffordshire BMD www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk

Looking for McDERMOTT births on the West Midlands site I saw Mary McDERMONT registered 1856 in Oldbury sub district. This site does't show mother's maiden names. I cross-checked with GRO Index. Couldn't find her in 1856 although I used phonetic search and other options. However I found Mary McDERMONT mmn TOY registered West Bromwich 1857. So possible discrepancy re registration year. Unless there were babies of same name born in consecutive years.  Would she have been Catherine Mary or Mary Bridget? The only Catherine I got on the West Midlands site was Catherine McDEARMOTT 1857 sub district Dudley. West Midands BMD and Staffordshire BMD sites are done by volunteers from original certificates which are kept at local or county registration offices. They are generally more accurate than GRO Index but coverage is not complete. Transcription and indexing work is ongoing.

Peter's name is spelt MACDERMOTT in West Midlands Marriages index. Catherine's name is TYE.  It has Civil,  West Bromwich which probably means they married in a non-Anglican church so a Registrar had to attend to make it legal.

The McDermott surname in many forms was in West Midlands indexes almost from start. They were in West Brom from late 1830s and in other places. They may have been there before start of civil regisration 1837. Before then almost all marriages had to take place in Anglican churches, regardless of religious beliefs of bride or groom. It would be an idea to check parish church marriage registers. McDermott and Tye may be in Anglican burial registers as well since burial was a monopoly until mid-century or later.

I looked for McDermott burials on Staffordshire Burial Index but didn't find any.

http://www.bmsgh.org/burialsearch/

The index begins in 1851. Coverage is incomplete. It's another volunteer project, It's an idea to revisit such sites from time to time as new records are added frequently.

Peter and Catherine's marriage certificate should have names and occupations of their fathers. It will give bridegroom's occupation and addresses of bride and groom at the time of the marriage. Witnesses may or may not have had a connection to bride and groom.

Since the wedding didn't take place in an Anglican church you will probably have to send away for a copy of the certificate. You can order either through West Midlands BMD site www.westmidlandsbmd.org.uk or via GRO . Reference numbers for ordering will be different depending on which site you use. Don't order through a family history website; they charge a premium.

I looked up Oldbury on GEN UKI to find out which churches existed when your ancestors lived there. www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WOR/Oldbury  

Oldbury seems to have changed counties several times. It became part of Worcestershire in 1844 and West Bromwich (Staffordshire ) 1966. It's now in the Borough of Sandwell. It's 3 miles from Dudley, 5 from Birmingham and is also near to West Bromwich. I noticed Dudley and West Bromwich came up when I searched for McDermott In the BMD indexes I mentioned in a previous post. Your ancestors might have had baptisms, weddings and burials in Oldbury or another nearby place.

Oldbury had an Anglican church and a Non- conformist chapel. It doesn't say on GEN UKI whether the C.of E. church had a graveyard. Catholic church in Oldbury was St. Francis Xavier built 1865. Too late for baptisms of Peter & Catherine's children but if they left relatives behind in Oldbury they might be in them. (That's assuming they were Catholic.) There was a cemetery in Olbury called Rood End, opened 1857

 Dudley had C. of E., and Non-Conformist churches and a Catholic church, Our Blessed Lady and St. Thomas of Canterbury (1835).

West Bromwich had a Catholic church slightly earlier - St. Michael, 1832. Early registers of this church have gaps. There were also C.of E. churches in West Brom.

Registers for all 3 Catholic churches have been deposited in the diocesan archives. It's the Catholic Archdiocese of Birmingham. Look up Birmingham Archdiocesan Archives. Btw a few early marriages and burials are included in some early Catholic baptism registers. Careful scrutinisation of catalogue entry for each item is recommended.

 GEN UKI is an indispensible tool in a family history toolkit for the British Isles. It's another volunteer undertaking so coverage varies.  

Worcestershire branch of  Midlands Ancestors family history society has compiled marriage and burial iindexes for pre 1837  C. of E.registers. Almost everyone was married and buried by Church of England before then.

https://midland-ancestors.uk

 Halesowen had a cemetery from 1859. Oldbury was in the parish of Halesowen at one time.

Thank you so much Maggie, somehow in setting up my account on the  website I accidentally managed to join with an email I don't even use and have just found all your replies just as I am running out the door for the afternoon.  I have quickly edited my email and some of my original post to hopefully make it more clear.  I have the birth certificate of Francis McDermott  (The second name Ambrose appeared later and was used all his life).  Similarly the name Bridget appeared later and Mary was known as Mary Bridget.  Thank you so much for all the information, I can't wait to get home and look at this all more closely.  :)

Hello Louise. 

County boundaries in the West Midlands conurbation changed several times. Towns are very close together.  Parish boundaries may have altered. Records could be in different places. See GEN UKI and Midland Ancestors FH society for guidance.

Ambrose and Bridget may have been names added at Baptism or Confirmation. My father and an uncle had unofficial middle names. My uncle's middle name had no connection with either side of the family.

If Peter and Catherine followed traditional Irish naming pattern one would expect eldest 2 children of each gender to be named after grandparents. Tradition wasn't always followed.