Where are Aghadifflin townland and Kilkelly CP district?

Aghadiffin is a 950 acre townland in east Kilmovee civil parish near the Co. Roscommon border. Aghadifflin is about 6 miles east of Kilkelly town and about 3 miles southeast of Kilmovee.

The Griffiths Valuation head of household listing shows Aghadiffin entries including a couple Forkans.

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/kilmovee.htm

I can't help with the references to Kilkelly civil parish.

Roger McDonnell

Hello Roger,

Thank you for your helpful reply!  I will investigate this.

Since I think you are very good with finding placenames, I'd like to ask you for another one.

There was a Catherine Tully who was baptised in 1833 with parents Michael Tully and Honor (no maiden name).  This was in Loughlynn Roman Catholic parish (Co Roscommon).  The address given was "Gavil".  (The sponsors of this baptism were Michael Rogers and Honor Tully.)

I have searched for Gavil in both Tibohine and Kilkeevin civil parishes without luck. 

I was also wondering if you could recommend a map I could order showing Mayo and Roscommon counties with townlands.  I have a little trouble fitting them together, to see which townlands might be next to others.  When I look on internet, I get either one county or parish or the other, and not both side by side.  If you have any ideas about this, I'd greatly appreciate it!

Many thanks for your help.

I was not able to find a townland called Gavil. The closest I found was Gowel which is in Co. Mayo about two miles east of Charlestown. Too far away for a baptism in Loughglynn.

I use the Discovery Series  Ordnance Survey maps of Ireland. There are 89 maps for all of Ireland.

See the link below. I have been using map 32 to answer your questions.

http://www.mapsworldwide.com/ireland_map_index.asp

Roger

Hello Roger,

It's too bad about Gavil.  Do you think it could be on a subdenomination list?  It seems like it could be important for me to find this place.

Thanks for the reference to the maps.  I will definitely be ordering a couple of them. 

I was wondering also if there was a way I could get a history of the townland Tully (Loughglynn and Tibohine).  My relative in Cornacarta (Mayo) thinks our ancestors may have come from there.  There weren't any Tully's there in the Tithes or Griffith's Val or after, that I can see.  Maybe there's a book or library reference with information available.  Do you know what churches and graveyards might have served this area?

Many thanks for any help/advice you could give.

Cindy (Tully) Taupin 

PS  Tully is my mother's maiden name.

Cindy:

I could not find a history of Tully and in general you won't find histories of indivdiual townlands. Tully is about 7 miles west of Loughglinn with a decent road in that direction so I believe your ancestors would have attended the church in Loughglinn. The attached link provided info on the town including Our Lady of Good Counsel church.

Roger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughglinn

Hello Roger,

Thank you very much for the link to Loughglinn information.  It was very interesting.  I'm looking forward to coming there some time (I hope next year) to experience the area more myself.

I was wondering if you could help me out with another question.  I was looking at Errit townland in Tibohine, just bordering Tully townland.  I became interested because there is a Patricia Tully from Erritt (with 2 t's) buried in Ballyhaunis cemetary, 1937.  I have found Errit in the Griffth's Val (no Tully's listed), but I haven't been able to find it in the Tithe's Books.  I have also looked under Eiread.  (I haven't been able to find any  Erritts in Co Mayo.)

I thought that perhaps this area was in another townland during the Tithe Books.  I have studied Errit on the Ordinance Survey map and I see there is a "Carrowgarve" point in the townland which comes up.  Don't know if that means anything.  Do you know why I can't find Errit in the Tithe Books?  I must be missing something.

I have seen that there were Tully's in Tibohine in the 1749 Elphin census, in Loughglinn.  I just thought that was interesting.

Best wishes,

Cindy

Cindy:

I looked but could not find out why Errit was not included in the Tithe's listing. However, while searching, I found this article about Tully and a guy named Jim Coffey.

Roger

https://sites.google.com/site/theroscommongiant/contents/part-one---place-of-birth

Hello Roger,

Well that's interesting - and some information about Tully townland too!  I didn't know about the "Roscommon Giant" before but it's a wonderful story and he eventually married a girl from Tully and then lived in Loughglinn.

One of my own Tully uncles (Joe "The Kid" Tully) became a boxer in Boston about the same time that Jim Coffey was boxing in New York.  But I don't think he got any fame from it though!

I haven't gotten any further with connecting my Co Mayo (Cornacarta) Tully's to where they came from in Co Roscommon but I think something will turn up eventually.  I'll keep trying.

Thanks very much for your help and I will no doubt find some other questions to ask you at some point!

Cindy

Hi Cindy,

Here are a few Tully records I came across in passing this last week.

1. From Elphin Wills Film

Daniel Tully Will 1717 Probate 1718

2. Elphin Marriages 1833 - 1845

 George Tully to Litilia Smith 1838

Nicholas Tully to Mary Bell 1819

Lord Viscount Dillon had a number of maps done of a number of his townlands. There are three volumes. Two are available in the National Library of Ireland the third one is missing. Mpst of these maps list the names of the tenants. Some were drawn up before the Griffiths and as such are very useful. 

Martin

Hello Martin,

Thank you for writing!  I was wondering in fact about the landlords and if that might help me to find the Tullys I'm looking for in Co Roscommon.  I hope to go to Ireland next year and then I will try to go to Dublin to see these Dillon books.  In Cornacarta, the landlord was John Nolan Ferrall, with big house in Lugboy.  However, I see that there were 2 and a half lots in Cornacarta which were owned by Theobald Dillon and rented out to Luke Dillon.  There was no house, just a cottage on one of them (lot 18 -c,d).  Do you think this is the same Dillon family?  I was thinking that maybe the landlord of this Tully family in Co Roscommon recruited them for Cornacarta.  I'm trying to find a reason why they went there!  I think I read that the John Nolan Ferrall estate also had townlands in Co Roscommon but I don't know where.

Thank you for the new Tully records you found in Elphin.  I have made note of these names.  I also saw Tullys in the Elphin Census Search including one called Juggy Tully in Loughglinn townland.  Have you ever heard of this name?  I was thinking it might really have been John or James.

I tried to find some of the Tully's you mentioned to me previously in Co Rosc.  This led me to finding  Patrick and Mary (Path) Tully, Ballybane, Ballinlough RC parish. Their first two children were Owen (b 1866, sponsor Margaret Path) and Catherine (b 1867).  This interested me because the first two children of Patrick (Jr) Tully and Margaret Grogan (my gr. grandparents) in Cornacarta were Owen (b 1856) and Catherine (b 1857).  John Tully and Catherine Hasty (of Cornacarta, and John was probably Patrick's brother, with father Patrick Sr), also named their first two children Owen (b 1849) and Catherine (b 1850).  So, I've been trying to tie the Patrick and Mary (Path) Tully to my Tullys of Cornacarta, but so far I haven't been able to do it.  (The baptism rec. of Mary Path: Castlerea Dist., parents John & Honor (Hart) Path, and sponsors Roger Hart and Mary Allen.  Notes:  Fr. P. McDermott.)

You told me about  Margaret Tully, born 1841 to Owen Tully and Margaret Donnellan, I think in Kiltullagh, sponsors Michael Forkan and Catherine Tully.  You didn't find other children of this marriage, and there was no address given, but you said there were Forkans (or Forkins?) in Corrasluastia at that time.  I was wondering how you found that as I haven't found any Forkans there in the Tithes or Griffith's.  Looking for the sponsors,  I found a Catherine Tully born in 1833 in Loughlynn RC parish.  From what you have seen in your searches, do you think she would have been too young to be a sponsor (8 or 9 years old)?  This Catherine's parents were Michael and Honor Tully, address Gavil, Loughlynn RC parish (bap. sponsors Michael Rogers + Honor Tully).   Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any place called Gavil in Loughlynn parish.

So, I think maybe the landlords might help find the family.  Do you have any idea about how tenants such as my Tully family would have known to travel to Cornacarta, a different parish and county, and found land to rent there?  It seems like they must have known somehow that there was land available in Cornacarta.  If you have any ideas about that, I'd really appreciate hearing them!

Thanks very much again for your help!

Cindy

Hi Cindy,

I was back in the NLI today. I checked the Dillon Maps. There are three volumes. A-C, C-K, and K-Z. The K-Z one has been for restoration for the las number of years. Today they let me see 6 of the pages that have been restored. Most of the maps are drawn up in the 1850s so there is not alot of difference to the Griffiths.  In Cloongawnagh 1858 there are two Pat Greally's. One is called Pat Greally (Tully). There is a mention of a Pat tully in Roosky. And of course the Pat Tuly in Corraun which I already sent to you. I do not have the index page to the K - Z book so I do not know what townlands are mapped. Unfortunately the page for Agheduffin has been cut out. I have seen a note in another similar page that it was taken for a court case and never returned. There are two pages for Gowel  - but no mention of Tully surname. For Tully townlnd I looked at the index of The Longfield Collection and there is a map of Tully with a list of tenants but I think the map is not dated. I will have it ordered for the next time I am in.The ref is 21 F 44 Longfield Map Collection. There is no errit townland under Dillon Maps maybe a different landlord.

Theobald Dillon I believe is indeed someway connected to the Viscount Dillon and to the Robert Dillon who signed the Treaty of Limerick way back. But the connection is currently not fully established. He is mentioned in two deeds. He appears to be written out of a will being paid 10s while others got thousands - that is another long story.

Theobald's son was Luke. He was bailiff for Nolan. Luke was shot dead about 100 yards from his house. There is still a torn bush that no one has ever cut away at the side of the road where he was shot. I have a long article on that too.

If one of your relatives are in Cloonfad this Saturday at 8.00pm they could give me your email address and I could send you some additional information. It might be no harm to write a card to the address I gave you previously in Ballinlough. 

Re Owen Tully that was the only record. It was probably their youngest child as the records only commenced in Nov 1839. 

In the 1860s there was a Patrick Forkan in Corrasluastia.

8-9 definately to young to be a sponsor.

During the famine many places became vacant. If people were put out on the road they very often travelled along the roads until they saw a vacant place and just moved in worked the land and paid the rent as it fell de. It would be much like coming out of Bankrupcy today. Start again with a clean slate.

Most old people would be able to tell you such and such came from a townland maybe even from the other side of the closest town.

Hi Cindy,

Here are a few Dillon Map pictures for private use only. - Rules of NLI.

Hi Cindy,

I have just found out the Longfield Collection of MAps have been digitised and are available online at the NLI (National Library of Ireland) Website. Just go to site and in collections search engine key in Longfield Maps (Tully) or Castlereagh etc. to get what you want.

http://catalogue.nli.ie/

Martin.

Sometimes these maps are very difficult to make out the small writing.

Hello Martin,

I was wondering where you would be at 8 pm in Cloonfad this evening.  I haven't gotten a hold of my relatives yet over there  about meeting up with you but there's still a chance.  I would really like to have the other information you could send me.  Otherwise, I suppose I could just give you my e-mail on this site?

Thank you for sending me the Dillon and Longfield maps information.  I have started looking at the Longfield maps and they are great!  I suppose I'll have to find the right spelling to use for the townlands since they've changed so much over the years! 

I was interested that there was still a Dillon family living in Cornacarta in 1901, despite the fact that this former Luke Dillon was shot dead there!  I'd love to see that article.

By the way, through my family research I've made contact with a family in Australia (his grandfather was my grandfather's oldest brother, Owen) and another descendant in the U.S. (great grandfather was Michael Tully of Cornacarta whose daughter Sally married John McDonnell there).  I've been able to share some of my family research with them.  Both of these families are now planning trips to Ireland to re-visit their roots!  The Australian family may be coming before the end of this year so maybe there'll be some other group gatherings in the fall which they could go to!

Thanks for any suggestions about getting my e-mail address to you.

Cindy

Hi Martin

I might be related to Luke Dillon Baliff that was shot dead in 1881.

I was wondering what was his wifes name? or any other information would be much appreciated.

You can contact me directly at:

mtarmey59@gmail.com

I have been researching my family history for 4 years now.

Thanks,

Mark