AGNES WINIFRED FLYNN

Hi Angela,

I located Richard and Maggie's marraige cert on the free website www.irishgenealogy.ie

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

It gives the fathers names and witnesses for both Richard and Maggie. Here is the birth records for some of their children:

Born in Louth:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Born in Armagh:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

The only one I could not find was for Agnes but I will do some more digging and hopefully track her down.

Mary Bridget married Peter Joseph McCaffrey:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

More to come-I will look into this family properly for you-lets see what we find! Hope some of this was helpful!

Hi Alecia,

  I really cannot thank you enough for your help.I was so surprised to see such a quick response from you.So that was very much appreciated and I have added the extra information to the tree.

 The whole object of this search is to find out where and what happened to Agnes Winifred Flynn and her siblings, all mentioned above.Mary Bridget did marry Peter Joseh McCaffrey on 29th January 1924. He was an ex soldier and lived at Castletown Rd., Dundalk , and Mary Bridget Flynn was listed at Mount Pleasant, Dundalk.I know that Agnes was eight years younger than Mary and so when of age, she must have gone to work alongside Mary Bridget at the Convent as a domestic.In fact she must have worked there for many years as that Convent became a nursing home and is called Mount Oliver Nursing Home  and was the address given for Agnes when she gave birth in 1947 to Oliver Flynn and his father is believed to be someone working at the hospice by the name O'Hare.He may have been a gardener.I have spoken to them there and although very nice, no information has been forthcoming.

Mary Bridget ( Flynn) McCaffrey is said to have a daughter called Phyllis McCaffrey and another daughter by the name of Margaret Elizabeth Theresa Harris, but must be a McCaffrey. I found her name on another family tree but can find no record of either of these ladies, but the funny part is that both are connected to Kidsgrove, Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire. Both supposedly born in Dundalk, Louth, Ireland.Margaret married William Patrick McKeown who was born 21st January 1923 in Ireland and he died in Stoke-)n-Trent May 2003.They had a large family....Phyllis McCaffrey was born approximately 1945 (give or take a few years) and married an Anthony Dunn.That is all that I know about her, except that Anthony died but have not found that record either.

 I think that that is all that I know at this point in time.Oliver is desperate to find Agnes Flynn and has been searching for many, many years to get information and had very little luck and that is how I come to be doing this search.He simply does not want to die without knowing what happened to his mother and her siblings.

Once again, thank you so much for what you sent yesterday. Have a lovely weekend.

Sincerely,

Angela Salley.

Hi Angela, 

Did some further research. I found Agnes's birth cert and included the link below just in case you didn't have it. 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Here is Richard's death record:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

As you can see, he died in Mountpleasant. Mary Bridget and her family were obviosly still in Ireland in the early 1940s. I could not find any other marraige records for the other siblings in the Dundalk area, suggesting they too moved away. I'll keep looking for some info on them and Agnes and keep you posted. Quick question- was Oliver's father mentioned on the birth cert as O'Hare or was that just a rumour passed down?

In the meantime, I think I found Maggie Richardson's family. She was born in Mounthill, Creggan Upper, Armagh, to George Richardson and Rose Harvey/Harvesy. Her godparents were Alice Traynor and Peter Kieran.

Her siblings were:

Mary  B. 13 Jan 1878  Godparents- James Flynn and Mary McCooey

Patrick  B. 19 Sep 1880  Godparents- Patrick Doyle and Mary Harvesy

The confusing thing is from one record to the next, the name varies from Richardson to Richards but this family does seem like a good match. The father's name is a match and also considering her mother's name is Rose as well as her daughter. 

Also on Patrick's marraige cert to Sarah Collins, his address is given as Glassdrummond, Mounthill, the same address Rose Flynn was born at. 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

Interestingly, as you can see above, Mary's godfather was James Flynn. There was also Richardson children with a Flynn mother being baptised in the parish of Faughart. Perhaps one of Maggie's cousins married into the Flynn family in Faughart and that was how she met Richard. Maggie's address is given as Drumgooley on her marraige cert and she was also a domestic servant so she may have been working in the area too. 

Alicia

Another question- I had a look on ancestry just in case I might find something for Agnes and I think I stumbled upon your family tree there. You have a James Clarke as Agnes's husband, married in 1954. Did you find anything that lead you to believe this or is this the soldier she supposedly left to England with? By the way, if you don't mind me asking, where did you come across the rumours about Agnes you mentioned above?
Many thanks,
Alicia

Hi Alicia, 

 Thank you for the latest ingo. Very much appreciated.Let me try and answer each question one at a time.Please remember that apart from my first message where I wrote the words that that was FACT, that was because I could prove only that. Originally all I was given was Agnes's name and the bit about her coming from Faughart.Then he told me that Richard Flynn and Maggie Richardson were his grandparents.Then he met a man called Seamus Flynn who said that he was the grandson of Patrick Flynn,(I think that he said twice removed)  who was married to Ellen ( I believe her last name was McArdle). I have seen a photo of Patrick and Ellen and it said that it showed seven of their children.It also said on the photo SHEAN, FORKHILL, COARMAGH.Patrick was born in 1871 and died in 1947 according to Ancestry. Ellen McArdle was born 1874 and died in 1943.

 I have two trees, one named Flynn Family Tree, the second named McCaffrey Family Tree, both in my name. The reason for the McCaffrey tree is because Seamus Flynn said that the only other relative that he knew of was a daughter of Mary Bridget (Flynn) McCaffrey who was in her 70's and lived in Kidsgrove, Stoke -On-Trent, Staffordshire.We were told that her name was Phyllis but I believe that she is the same person named Theresa P. Flynn on my tree.Born 1942 in Dundalk, Louth.We got her address but so far she has not responded, but this was new information, so there is still time.She was married to Anthony Dunn who died a few years ago.I was hoping to come up with children belonging to them.I have been scouring Facebook for Dunn's who live in Kidsgrove or Stoke- On-Trent in general this morning, trying to find somebody who might tie in to Phyllis.

Regarding the name O'Hare, Oliver was told that he was believed to be his father and worked as a gardener or groundsman at Mount Oliver's.He had no idea that he was adopted until forty years ago when he was getting married.It was a complete shock to him. Since then he has been trying to get bits of information, without much luck. It was even an article in a local newspaper some years ago as Oliver was so desperate to find his mother and family.That is how Seamus Flynn was found.

Regarding James Clark and Agnes Flynn, a lot of the records only show the name Agnes as opposed to Agnes Winifred Flynn, consequently there are hundreds of Agnes Flynn's and so I have been tweaking the tree trying out different men whom she could have married using the year that Oliver was born 1947 and forewards.Even though she may well have still been in Ireland until 1954ish.But again that is heresay.I used FreeBMD and Family Seach and got lists of people named Agnes Flynn and weedled down the years and fitting a death or a marriage to her.

There was an Agnes Winfred Leyshon who died in Hounslow, Middlesex in AMJ 1978, Born November 1912, which one would think was Oliver's Agnes Flynn but although looking at the name Leyshon, there was a marriage in Cambridge for Leyshon and Flynn 1947 but that turned out to be a different woman altogether.

As for the name Clarke. There was a James R. Clarke Jr, of 1 Spring Villas, Harrow Middlesex who married an Agnes Flynn in OND 1954.She lived at 2 Spring Villas, Robert lived with his family at number 1 Spring Villas.But she only appeared on the Voters Register for 1955 and after that year, Agnes and Robert left the family and moved elsewhere, that I have not since found, plus no mention of Winifred, only Agnes Flynn as a name.I put him in the tree incase Ancestry came up with a hint or something. I keep tweeking it in the hopes of getting an answer. LOL!!!

Regarding any rumours, it is just the same man who gives a bit of info. but that is to Oliver, not me. I have never met him and I sort of take them with a pinch of salt.When you look at Mary Bridget Flynn, her husband was a soldier, so I wondered if the gossips had got the wrong sister.This man that I mentioned yesterday called Jimmy Nail, was something to do with a Mill, may have owned it, he had Mary Bridget and Agnes Winifred Flynn as domestic help and he had  an accident and ended up at Mount Oliver, in Mountpleasant, but he gave the two sisters a lump sum of money as he was so grateful to them for all of their work and I wondered if it was that money that made them then be able to afford to go to England or wherever Agnes went, using that money.It was like a way to start a new life.I think that Stoke-On-Trent and Newcastle-Under-Lyme is a good start, but I can't help wondering if Agnes perhaps mover further afield.I don't have a date or year of when Jimmy Nail gave them that money or had his accident.

I think that I have answered your questions now,Anything else, please do not hesitate to ask.I was just going to say (& it is probably a coincidence) Oliver John Flynn was adopted by a family called Collins, so is known today as Oliver Collins. You mentioned re. Maggie Flynn.......Quote: Patrick's marriage to Sarah Collins, his address given as Glassdrummond, Mounthill, the same address that Rose Flynn was born at ........You don't think by any chance that the Collins family who adopted Oliver were connected do you, only their names were Phillip and Sarah Collins, from Carrickmacross, Co. Monaghan and they adopted Oliver in 1947, just one month after he was born,  and Sarah was terrified of Oliver going to try and find or visit the area where his birth family came from????? She was so against it, that when he found a girlfriend who happened to come from that same area, and he never mentioned to Sarah about her until he got engaged, and behind his back she split the pair of them up by telling the girlfriend some lies. I mean it is so sad to think that she would do that.So now I am thinking about it, perhaps there is a link.

 You take care and thank you so much for the latest info.

Very sincerely

Angela Salley.

Hi Angela,

I think I definitely have found Christopher and Richard Flynn - Agnes's brothers- in the following records-

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Christopher's age is off by four years and Richard's by two, but I suppose back then many people weren't even sure of what age they were and most ages on death certs were simply guesses. What caught my attention was that both of the above men lived on St Nicholas Avenue. Richard, who died first, lived at no. 47 and no number is given for Christopher. And St Nicholas Avenue is the exact same address given for Mary Bridget Flynn McCaffrey on her father's death cert! So these two seem like a strong match. 

This at least solves the fates of two of the Flynn siblings. I can't find any other marraiges for all the daughters except for Mary B in the Dundalk area at all. I did some background research into Peter McCaffrey's family to see if I could find any clues- each of this parents were married twice and had children in both marraiges. Peter's only full sister Julia died as a baby but he had several half siblings who married and had children. I found a few matches on ancestry so maybe if we can get into contact with close descendants of Peter's brothers and sisters, they might be able to help link us to what became of Mary Bridget and her husband or put us in contact with any of their descendants. 

Alicia

Hi Alicia,

  Thank you so much for the latest information.It really is very kind of you to have helped so much and is really appreciated by both Oliver and myself.I don't know how we would manage without you.You are so good at this research.

  I agree with you that it looks like Peter McCaffrey's family that seem most likely to hold any clues as to what happened to Mary Bridget Flynn and Peter McCaffrey.I just don't understand why Agnes Winifred Flynn does not come up on any records that I have researched, even when doing a Worldwide Search.I even wondered if she had gone to somewhere like Australia or New Zealand whereby they have very strict laws on what records are released and it is very hard to come up with Marriage and Death records there for many years. 

 Anyway, hopefully one of the tree holders will bring up some information re Peter McCaffrey's relatives that will at least give us a good hint as to where to look. Whatever way one looks at this, it is very exciting as we are so much closer now than at anytime since Oliver started this search forty years ago, to finding his family.

 Wishing you all the very best of good wishes and grateful thanks. You are marvellous to help like this.

Very sincerely

Angie.

Hi Alecia,

Since writing my last reply to yours, I have got a bit of an update to tell you.Regarding Agnes Winifred Flynn, she may not have gone to England after all, but instead moved to Belfast. This may have been around 1964 or before that, when the man that she was working for, went in to Oliver Plunket's Nursing home. He was called Jimmy Nail. I do not know if his surname is spelt correctly, but that is what he was known as.Whether she stayed in Belfast or not, I cannot say as the person giving the information was not very friendly.She was the daughter of Mary Bridget Flynn McCaffrey.She also referred to Agnes as "Aggie".

Mary Bridget (Flynn) McCaffrey it turns out is buried in Castletown Cemetery.Dundalk, Co.Louth.She didn't give a date or any other info. on her.

Mary Bridget's daughter Teresa Phyllis McCaffrey was born in 1942 and is aged 76 years old now.She married Anthony Dunn who came from Drumcondra, County Meath, and they married in Dundalk, and she said that she had a son called Kieran,(but stayed single)  but I believe that she also had a daughter called Michelle and another son called Gerald, who married a Phyllis DJ Lindon aged between 60-64 years old. Gerald and Phyllis and his wife Phyllis all live together in Stoke On Trent, but I don't think that she is going to give any more information.Phyllis has a niece living in St. Nicholas Avenue, Dundalk right near where Richard Flynn and all of the Flynn family were living at 47 St Nicholas Avenue, so I am not sure who her mother was. I only heard that bit of information today. So perhaps Mary Bridget and Peter Joseph McCaffrey never left Ireland and just the younger ones did .

So Alecia, that is the latest info. perhaps it might help a bit.

Take care,

Angie.

Hi Alecia,

Since writing my last reply to yours, I have got a bit of an update to tell you.Regarding Agnes Winifred Flynn, she may not have gone to England after all, but instead moved to Belfast. This may have been around 1964 or before that, when the man that she was working for, went in to Oliver Plunket's Nursing home. He was called Jimmy Nail. I do not know if his surname is spelt correctly, but that is what he was known as.Whether she stayed in Belfast or not, I cannot say as the person giving the information was not very friendly.She was the daughter of Mary Bridget Flynn McCaffrey.She also referred to Agnes as "Aggie".

Mary Bridget (Flynn) McCaffrey it turns out is buried in Castletown Cemetery.Dundalk, Co.Louth.She didn't give a date or any other info. on her.

Mary Bridget's daughter Teresa Phyllis McCaffrey was born in 1942 and is aged 76 years old now.She married Anthony Dunn who came from Drumcondra, County Meath, and they married in Dundalk, and she said that she had a son called Kieran,(but stayed single)  but I believe that she also had a daughter called Michelle and another son called Gerald, who married a Phyllis DJ Lindon aged between 60-64 years old. Gerald and Phyllis and his wife Phyllis all live together in Stoke On Trent, but I don't think that she is going to give any more information.Phyllis has a niece living in St. Nicholas Avenue, Dundalk right near where Richard Flynn and all of the Flynn family were living at 47 St Nicholas Avenue, so I am not sure who her mother was. I only heard that bit of information today. So perhaps Mary Bridget and Peter Joseph McCaffrey never left Ireland and just the younger ones did .

So Alecia, that is the latest info. perhaps it might help a bit.

Take care,

Angie.

Hi Angela

Wow that is fantastic you finally got into contact with Phyllis- even though she may not be very forthcoming- at least it gives us something more to go on.

I looked at findagrave but while there are several McCaffreys buried in Castletown Cemetery, I could not find Mary Bridget or her husband but i don't know how complete that collection is. I also could not find any civil/grave records for a Jimmy or James Nail. I used the website www.irishgenealogy.ie to search for any marraige/death records for Agnes in either Belfast or Dundalk but haven't found anything that could even be a possibility. The records available online go to 1941 for marraiges, which was before Oliver was born, so perhaps Agnes married afterwards. Death records go to 1966 and i have checked several possible records but found nothing, suggesting Agnes may actually have married and changed her surname beforehand, or of course she just died after that date. I will see if there's anyway I can search indexes to look for a match but its a long shot to be able to narrow them down. 

At least at this stage we know what became of Mary Bridget, Christopher and Richard, which just leaves Rose, Teresa and of course Agnes. I probably need to get a bit more creative with research methods- there has to be something about what happened to Agnes somewhere, no one just disappears into thin air. I do some more research this week, maybe I'll try to find some more on Rose and Teresa that might help us. 

Hopefully i'll find something soon and well done on the lead with Phyllis- you really had made fantastic progress on this search for Oliver,

Alicia

Hi Alecia,

Thank you so much for your message. I have a bit more information which may help.

It is very possible that Mary Bridgett Flynn married a man by the name of McEntaggert. He was from Phillipstown, County Louth.So as I don't as yet have a date for Peter Joseph McCaffrey's death, would it be possible that she married this man after Peter died. They are supposed to have had a small cottage on the Falls Road in Belfast.It is believed that after Agnes Winifred Flynn left the employment of Jimmy Nail (as a domestic) who was to do with O'Hare's Mills, in Dundalk, and Agnes went to Belfast, well it is very likely that she went to stay at this house in Falls Road, with Mary Bridget (Flynn) (McCaffrey)and may well have been a McEntaggart.As Jimmy Nail gave Agnes and Mary Bridget some money each before going in to Oliver Plunkett's Nursing Home in Dundalk, perhaps that was how they were able to buy this small cottage.So perhaps we are talking about 1947 to right up to 1964ish.

It turns out that Phyllis McCaffrey (Stoke-On-Trent) was at the funeral of Agnes's mother (Maggie (Richardson) Flynn,who is buried at Old Faughart Cemetery.So that was a newer bit of info which she didn't tell Oliver on Sunday.

So I hope that some of this helps a little bit.I think that we are getting close.

Thanks a million for all that you are doing.This is just going to be the best Christmas present ever for Oliver if we can find Agnes.

Take care and have a great day,

Angie.

Hi Alecia, 

Just a small update to the one I sent yesterday. It was NOT Mary Bridget who inherited the house on Falls Road, Belfast, it was Rose Ann Flynn (born 1902) who married a McEntagart from Philipstown, Co. Louth. The wrong name was given to me. He said that it was in an old newspaper called Northern Whig. Something to do with Agnes Flynn on the Deed, and Rose Ann McEntagart, Philipstown, Co.Louth. So he must have died and left it to them, but they definitely got this small cottage on the Falls Road, Belfast.So he was not sure if they sold the house in Philipstown and bought the one in Belfast or if he had already owned it and left it to them.This article was supposed to have been around 1951.

 So I hope that that bit helps, sorry for the mix up in names but I think that the person giving the info. is getting a bit overwhelmed with it all.

Take care, with very best wishes,

Angie.

Hi Angela

Apologies for taking so long but I think I may have come up with something:

The following is a likely death cert for Rose Flynn McEntaggart in Curlingford near Dundalk, dated 1951. Could the article in the Northern Whig perhaps being referring to Agnes being left the house by her sister? Though Rose's husband was still alive at the time of her death.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Though we have a basic idea of what happened to all the Flynn siblings except for Agnes, I haven't found much for Theresa. A Theresa Flynn, a nurse, born 1911, immigrated to America in 1936. The address is given as Boyle- wasn't sure if there is a town in Louth called Boyle? I will look it up. 

That's all for now. Hopefully we'll uncover something soon, I think that we are close to finding the answers :)

Hi Alecia,

It was lovely to hear from you.Thank you so much for the latest info. I am taking note of everything that you tell me.

You are never going to guess what I just heard today. Agnes Winifred Flynn had a daughter called Agnes Flynn. As Oliver was born in 1947, I did a search for 1945  + or - 10 years. There is an Agnes Flynn born to a Flynn AMJ 1940. Dundalk/Armagh/Ireland .

Now what do you reckon on this next bit. Do you remember that I told you about the daughter of Mary Bridget Flynn, who was far from forthcoming with the info., well it was her who suddenly turned up with the info about there being a second Agnes, daughter of Agnes Winifred Flynn, but also she said that Agnes Flynn who is on the document/Deed for the house in Belfast which is something to do with Mrs.Rose Ann McEnteggart, Philipstown, Dundalk, Co.Louth and was in the 'Northern Whig' newspaper for 1951, is the Agnes that the house was given to.So it wasn't the mother, it was instead the daughter, Oliver's half sister.The house is in Lincoln Avenue & Cranburn Street, Belfast. I did write to the Belfast City Hall and they said that as it is in the City, they do not have anything to do with those records but that I have to contact the PRONI (Public Records Office for Northern Ireland.So I will do that Monday.

Now here is another bit of info...It seems that Agnes Flynn Jr. was at the convent in Dundalk and was sent to the convent in Belfast. I am not sure if that was to work, or as a boarder or what ,as no age was given.She has to have been attending the funeral of her aunt and that is how Phyllis met her.She was walking out of the church at the same time and asked her her name.She referred to her as Aggie's daughter Agnes.

So now we are wondering if Agnes and Oliver have different fathers being as both did not live with their mother and there was 7 years apart.I have found where this Agnes's birth is given, but not a proper document, as there must be one mustn't  there. It is a shame that she is older than Oliver as he would so much like to have been in contact with her to find out what happened to his mother.

I think also that I have stumbled across part of Mary Bridget Flynn McCaffrey's other daughter's family, but that is in Stoke-On-Trent and Durham, England.Which is in the same area as Phyllis. Not a word has been said about any of them, isn't that odd.Anyway I will dig in to that a bit more. This search is so interesting, it has me completely hooked.

That is all that I have for now. I hope that you have a lovely weekend. Take care,

Angie.

Hi Angela,

I also located the birth index for Agnes Flynn in 1940 on findmypast. Only birth records up to 1916 are available online so to get Agnes Jrs birth cert, you can email the General Registry Office in Dublin for a scan or a photocopy of the document- gro@groireland.ie They charge €4 for a photocopy of a document for research purposes. Heres their telephone number- +353 90 663 2900 

Regarding the children of Mary Bridget Flynn and Peter McCaffrey, I tried McCaffreys born to a Flynn mother and the only five results came up in the Dundalk area. It was on findmypast so I could only see the index:

Patrick G R 1929

Mary B 1934

Peter J 1937

James G 1939

Teresa P 1942     (Must be Phyllis)

Baby Peter Joseph died in 1938

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Also I mentioned before I wasn't able to find any marraige cert for Rose Flynn to Thomas McEntaggart. I had a look at the findmypast marraige indexes today and I narrowed down the results by checking them on www.irishgenealogy.ie There is only two results left that could possibly be for her-one in 1944 and one in 1951, so either way she wasn't married for very long before her death. 

So does Phyllis know whether or not Agnes Flynn Jr is still living? She would only be seventy eight now so there is a chance.  I checked rip.ie and could find anything, so if she is dead, it mustn't have been recently. 

Once you obtain a copy of her birth cert, we need to start thinking about how we can track her down and any descendants she might have. She could potentially have married or had children from about 1958 onwards. As none of those records would be online, perhaps another advertisement in newspapers in the Belfast and Louth areas might help us find someone.

I will keep looking. We're getting closer and closer!

Alicia

Hi Alecia,

Thank you so much for the above information.I will look in to that. Phyllis is hardly giving away anything. It turns out that she never knew that she had an aunt called Rose Ann Flynn (completely denied it) then said that she did not know what Agnes Winifred Flynn looked like and didn't know if young Agnes Flynn  was really her. I think that she is purposely not telling us something.

Regarding Agnes Winifred Flynn's Birth Cert. Oliver got that already, but there are no different clues on it than what I have already mentioned.

Now here is another bit of information which makes me question the main info. given below about the three sisters.....Teresa Patricia Flynn was supposed to have had two illegitimate children named Mary and Joseph.Mary grew up and went to live in London and Joseph became a jockey and lived in Dublin. Teresa met a man called McGeough (I don't know his first name) from Dungooley,Co. Louth. He was not a very nice man and would not bother with Mary & Joseph. Teresa Patricia definitely moved to Seafield Lawns and was in one of the very first houses built there and she was there could have been in the 1970's.(Not to clear on that year but she was definately living in Seafield Lawns at some point prior to the late 1970's.She died there and the kids were so angry about this McGeough man and after Teresa died, the welfare got him a housekeeper, and how when he died, he completely left them out of his Will, that the son went and cleared every stick of furniture out of the place as McGeough left all of his money to the Housekeeper instead of his family.

There is something that is really puzzling me. A librarian in Belfast found a house at 9 Lincoln Avenue, Belfast.Northern Ireland. This is the house that I was telling you about in The Northern Whig dated 10th March 1951. The person named Agnes Flynn was not our Agness Flynn but instead Bridget Agnes Flynn (nee Quigley) married to Ambrose Flynn and they had two children called Rosemary & Kenneth Flynn. Unfortunately the four of them were killed when the house was bombed on 16th April 1941.Bridget Quigley married Ambrose Flynn on 1st December 1919.Ambrose was listed as being the main householder in 1928 & 1941 Belfast Street directories. Then, like I said, the four of them were killed by a bomb.What I am not sure of, is the connection between Ambrose and his family and our Rose, Agnes, Mary and so on Flynn's.

A Rose Ann McEnteggart was found at 563 Donegall Road,Belfast  in 1953-1963 directoriesIn 1964- 1973 the name becomes Mrs Rosina McEnteggart for the same address, which is just off of the Falls Road in West Belfast. The only other person listed was a Maureen Morgan who appeared in the 1965-1970 registers.So it would appear that Rose/Rosina died or moved in late 1972/ early 1973.

Regarding Agnes Winifred Flynn and the other sisters, a Mrs Flynn was found at 66 Beechfield Street, East Belfast.1932-1950 directories. In 1951 it stated that Agnes was the main householder and she was listed until 1963. By 1969 Miss Agnes Flynn was replaced by Miss Teresa Flynn who was last listed in 1981.If you notice it says Mrs Agnes Flynn 1932--1950, then it says 1951 Agnes was the main householder (after Oliver was born) and then it says MISS AGNES FLYNN. Do you think this is referring to young Agnes, daughter of Agnes Winifred?We sort of thought that she was born (If she really exists) in 1940 as that was the only record that came up.

The earliest register held by the library for Beechfield Street, 15th August 1946 - 1949 listed Teresa,(so is this Teresa Patricia Flynn) Mary (is this Mary Bridget Flynn) , also Agnes and somebody called Alice, whom I do not have a clue as to where she sprung from.The register for 1952 lists Teresa, Mary & Agnes at the same address, all three were still listed in 1967. 1968 lists Agnes and Teresa Flynn and 1969 lists only Teresa.Teresa was listed until 1979 register.And 1980 & 1981 there were no listings for 66 Beechfield Road. The conclusion being that Mary moved or died in late 1966.early 1967, Agnes moved or died in late 1967/ early 1968 and Teresa moved or died late 1978-late 1980.

So the librarian said that she wondered if Rose bought the house on the Donegall Road with the money left to her by Agnes (nee Quigley) and that the other three sisters lived at Beechfield Street with Alice Flynn.

I tried looking up https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk which it was suggested to see if the deaths were on record there, but it said that you can't look up deaths unless they are over 50 years old, nor marriages for 75 years so that seems a bit daft.How are you supposed to find somebody's death records if they unfortunately died 49 years or less ago? Everything that I tried putting in, the website threw out, plus you can't give more than a five year range.

So this is what is troubling me. How do I know that these are the same Flynn's  (Rose, Agnes & Teresa) that are the ones in the tree reated to Oliver???? Am I reading more in to this than what is real? I want it to be them but am I deluding myself.Also why can't I find these death records ? I am sort of stuck as to know what to do.Also, why if it was our Agnes did she have Oliver in Co. Louth, which is not in Belfast. I have tried to explain this as clearly as I can, I just hope that you can understand what I am trying to say.

So Alecia, thank you so much for all of your hard work.It is getting really exciting now, isn't it.You are really wonderful to spend your time trying to help us.Oliver has just recieved a DNA Kit as we wondered if that might help a bit.We will be sending that away next week but I don't suppose we will hear back for a while.I hope that you enjoy the rest of your weekend.Take care,

With very best wishes

Angie.

Hi Angela,
When I mentioned getting a copy of the birth cert of the GRO, I was referring to Agnes Jr, who was born in 1940. As birth certs from this year are not available online, only indexes, then if you received a copy for the result you got for Agnes Flynn Jr, then by looking at the copy you would be able to tell immediately whether or not it was a match and decide if she exists or not.

I agree it definitely seems as if Phyllis is holding something back. I will look into the possible lead on Teresa Flynn and hopefully we'll get some clues. I'll also research the names you mentioned above. The answers are somewhere, we will get them eventually.

Yes, I think a DNA kit would be a good idea. You never know what you could find! Best of luck and keep me posted if you get any more leads.

Best,
Alicia

Hi Alecia,

 I am so thick, I never thought of young Agnes. Of course that is a great idea. I wrote to the Louth County Archives today re Theresa Patricia Flynn and McGeough, re Marriage records or anything else that they might have, also to see if the children that Theresa had were on record, plus I contacted the local secondary school for that area where they lived and I contacted St. Brigids Church in case either Mary or Joseph or Agnes Jr where ever baptized or confirmed there.I might hear something of interest, one never knows.

I found a list called Lives of the First World War..... https://search.livesofthefirstworldwar.org and I entered simply Agnes Winifred (no surname) for England & Wales deaths, being as Agnes has to have died, and I was surprised how many Agnes Winifred names came up with various surnames. But boiling the list down, the only surname that came up was Agnes Winifred Leyshon who was born November 1912 and died AMJ of 1978 in Hounslow, Middlesex. But I couldn't find a marriage to go with the death for Leyshon, unless I simply missed it somehow. That was the only person who had the correct month and year of Birth on the whole list and actually said Agnes Winifred. I had looked up the records on that name previously, but none of them seemed to fit correctly.

You take care and of course I will get that birth cert. I think that my brain is fuddled. LOL!!!

With very best wishes

Angie.

Hi Alecia, 

I just wanted to write and wish you a very happy Christmas and the very best of good wishes for 2019.

Oliver's DNA went off a couple of weeks ago now so that will be interesting to see what that turns up.

   I just saw a record a couple of days ago for Teresa Flynn who married Peter McGeogh in OND 1945 in Dundalk. It didn't give a middle name.That was how it was spelt on the record,and when I enquired from a relative he reckons that Peter McGeogh was approx. the same age as Teresa Flynn born 1910 and there is a record saying that there was a Peter Joseph McGeogh baptized  on July 12th 1911 in Darver ,County Louth.His parents were Peter and Bridget Clarke and the two sponsers were Thomas McCormick and Cath McGeogh. So I am not sure if that is the correct man but I know that the one that married Teresa had a big piece of land / or a farm and that he sold that and they then bought a house at Seafield Lawns and that it was very likely number 34 (or next door)and that is where they lived with Teresa's two children Mary and Joseph. There are two records for a Joseph Flynn born to a Flynn for 1934 and a Mary Flynn, born to a Flynn for 1938 in Dundalk and they seem like the only two that fit in. So if these were indeed Teresa's children, then they had to have been 11 years old for Joseph & 6 years old for Mary when the marriage took place. Teresa died before Peter, in the chair in the house at Seafield Lawns.So going by what I have been told of the story, it may well have been that when she died, that the two children had by then left home and Mary went to London and Joseph became a jockey, but I am not sure if that was when he moved to Dublin or if he was a jockey in the Dundalk area.I mean he would be 85 years old now but perhaps he might have married and have family but there are so many Flynns it is like looking for a needle in a haystack and as for finding Mary, she probably married so would not even be called Flynn now and she could be living anywhere if not still in London.

 Anyway Alecia, that is the latest information for now.Oh yes, I should also tell you that the reason that we are having so much trouble finding these Flynn relatives and getting little or no help from anywhere I write to, including the church, is because Oliver was sold as a baby, and it seems that he was one of several whom this woman sold. She is dead now but that seems to be the reason for the lack of help.There is still no help either from the McCaffrey side. She knows something, but is not saying.

Regarding young Agnes, I am still awaiting the Birth Cert., it doesn't seem to matter who I contact regarding this case, there is like a brick wall goes up and they won't answer.But still, as the saying goes 'There is more than one way to skin a rabbit', so will see what else I can do.I am not giving up, I know that.

Have a lovely Christmas Alecia and take care and thankyou so much for what you have done to help Oliver find his family.

Big hugs to you,

Angie.

Hi Alecia,

  Just letting you know that by a shear fluke, I found Agnes Flynn (born 1940) daughter of Agnes Winifred Flynn,(born 1912) last week and after a few e-mails and phonecalls I have managed to trace her throughout her life. Unfortunately she died in 2016. It seems that she went from the Convent of Mercy in Dundalk to The Good Shepherd Convent in Belfast, then on to a residential home owned by them, then after being there ten years she was taken to hospital and died April 19th 2016 aged 76 years old and is buried in the Belfast City Cemetery.I questioned the different places mentioned but it seems that she was a very private person and never mentioned her family, also I was told that they were not encouraged to speak about their families.It is very sad indeed and still no clues as to what happened to her mother, but it was suggested that perhaps she also ended up being cared for in one of these homes and that is why we cannot find any information on her.

  I found Teresa Patricia Flynn who married Peter McGeough, they lived in Drumbilla, Kilcurry and then moved to Seafield Lawns approximately 1978 and in July of 1979, Teresa died and then Peter died in 1987 and they are buried in Bridgeacrin Cemetery, Co. Louth.Still no sign of Teresa's two children, Joseph and Mary Flynn, so I am thinking that the story is correct whereby Joseph came back from Dublin, cleared the house and left, meaning in 1979 he most probably was the person listed on Findmypast, along with Mary who were born in 1934 and 1938, before Teresa married Peter in 1945.

 So that is the latest findings for now. I hope that you had a good Christmas and New Year.

Best wishes

Angie.

Hi Angela,
That is wonderful to hear! Did you get the birth certificate for Agnes Flynn Junior - just to be 100% sure she is Agnes Winifred's daughter? As least now more of the pieces of the puzzle are coming together. I ran a broad search on rip.ie for Agnes Junior with no matches so I'm assuming she never married or had no children? I think it is usually family who arranged for that to be put up.

I also did a few searches for McCaffreys in Louth to see if I could find any of Phyllis's siblings who died within the last few years but no luck. I'm going to write out all we have found so far and review it to see if there's any other routes we could explore.

Best of luck, keep me updated and I'll try my best to help!
Alicia

Hi Alecia,

  So sorry for the late reply.Let me tell you the latest findings. Oliver's DNA came back from Ancestry and it says that he is 100% Ireland and Scotland ethnecicity.So does that mean that his father has to have been Irish / Scottish in which case could that mean that that is where Agnes was? I am finding all of this a bit beyond me and my understanding.He has 240 + matches for DNA connections, but I hardly recognise any of their surnames.So it is taking a while for me to get my head around his results.

  Agnes Flynn Jr. was born 19th June 1940 in Dundalk, but I couldn't find a birth record for her, that date was on the death record.

 I have sent out more emails hoping to get info. but I don't know if I will have any luck. A lady said to me yesterday that she wondered if the reason that we cannot find Agnes is because, supposing the story is true and that she did run off with a soldier, perhaps Agnes and this fella did no tmarry but just lived together and she took his name.What do you reckon on that and if that was the case, could he have perhaps been a married man?

  That is all I have at the moment.Please accept my apologies once again for the delay, but I have worked so many hours on this search, that I don't know if I am coming or going. LOL!!! Thank you so much for all that you are doing.

 Wishing you the very best of good wishes,

Angie.

Angela,
I did some research on DNA to try to comprehend Oliver's and apparently Irish and Scottish DNA is very similar because many of the Scottish clans originally came across the sea from Ireland. Or Oliver could have Scottish DNA from fourther back ancestors.

Perhaps something could be discovered from his dna matches. 240 is a lot! I was watching an interview on television the other day with a lady who was adopted at birth and took a DNA test to try find her parents. She was told she had been matched with a first cousin from her results- does Oliver's results state what his relationship is to any of these connections?

So as to the interview I mentioned above, it was on the Late Late Show with Ryan Tubridy last Friday night and can probably be watched back on the RTE player. The woman talking had been given up at birth by her young parents. Their names were on her birth certificate. A woman named Irene Credan in the town of Carrickmacross, Monaghan ran a practice giving babies to childless couples, and forging birth certificates with their names, and signing her own name as informant. The woman I mentioned above went looking for her parents and ran into a lot of difficulty because the only birth certificate she could find was the fake one. She eventually came across the real one and through DNA matches tracked down both of her parents. She also found that Irene Credan had been responsible for the forging of several other birth certificates for adopted children.

This happened in the 1960s and 1970s but isn't it funny that the town all those children were adopted out in, was the same town Oliver was adopted into about twenty years before? I am wondering if there is any connection- I know you said Oliver was sold by a woman. Irene Credan charged money for the adoptions. Perhaps she took over in later years from another woman who ran a similar practice, the woman responsible for Oliver's adoption. I just thought listening to it that it seemed eerily similar. It might be worth watching the interview to see if anything clicks.

Talk soon,
Alicia

Sorry, it's actually Irene Creedon, not Credan. Here are two short articles I found on the subject:

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/gp-who-ran-illegal-adoptions-was-…

https://www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/…

Hi Alecia,

Many thanks for the info. re Irene Creedon. Oliver told me that Margaret Norton had contacted him back in 2015. According to him, these adoptions had been going on since the 1940's. 

What I wanted to say to you was, regarding the DNA results, he has a first cousin with the surname Chris Dunne, must surely be something to do with Phyllis. But here is the interesting one, he has a second cousin named Ray Blythe who lives in Australia but was born in Glasgow and his parents went to Australia when he was five years old. He looks like he is in his 50's. He wrote a very short message to make contact but he said that he thought that the connection was through both his and Oliver's grandparents.Oliver has a fourth cousin named Jake Elwood, but looking up his parents and family, they are from  Coatbridge, North Lanarckshire, Scotland, so again I am wondering if Agnes went to Glasgow to live or if Oliver's dad is Scottish.

Could it be that Agnes did run off with a soldier from there, but that the relationship fizzled out but that she stayed there anyway and perhaps married somebody else? I looked at Voter's records for Glasgow and this is probably nothing but a couple of records took my interest. One was 1955. Address 102 Maukinfauld Rd., Glasgow. Shattleston District.At this address for 1955 there were several people living in these apartments but what struck me was that Agnes Flynn was not with any other person named Flynn, but that also living in the same address was a family called McConville. They were Catherine, Elizabeth, James, John and Thomas.Now in the DNA results a Adrian McConville is Olivers cousin and in the family tree a McConville married a Flynn.Also that same address in Glasgow and family ,are living there later on and Agnes is still there. But obviously I can't say at this time of writing that it is our Agnes.There is also an Agnes Flynn, with no other Flynn, at 294 Saracen Street, Glasgow in the 1962 Register of Voters.

A Bernadette Stephenson and Maureen Cooke also come up in the top four results, so have to be closely connected to Oliver.They are 2-3rd cousins.I have sent out messages for contact, so am hoping that these people mentioned respond and I explained in each message about our search for Agnes, hoping that perhaps they might ask around their families for info. I also sent out other messages to places that I thought would have known some of the younger members of the family around Co. Louth.

So Alecia, that is all that I have for now, but it is getting exciting as I don't know what e-mails will be coming, if any. LOL!!! I hope that you have a great weekend. Take care,

Angie.

Hi Alecia, 

Just an update to the above sent this morning.Jake Elwood is 60 + and his dad was John F. Elwood and his mother Margaret J. Burns Elwood (1925-2003). John was from Belfast and his mother was Elizabeth Crilly.She died 10/7/1949 in Belfast, Co. Antrim. Her parents were John Crilly and Eleanor Kearney and they are all buried in Milltown Cemetery.

Re. Ray Blythe, his father was actually born in Ireland approx. 1943 and by 1964 he was living in Glasgow. He married Eleanor Anne Roberts and when Ray was 5 years old, they moved from Glasgow to NSW., Australia. Philip died in 2016.That is all that I know so far.Ray will be the most important to find as he is 2-3rd cousin.He reckons that it is his great grandparents who are probably the link to Oliver. 

Take care, Angie.