Looking for Family Kearney/Mathews/Kiernan

The transcript on rootsireland for the 1885 marriage is probably taken from the church record of the marriage which does not record parents names. However if you order a copy of the civil certificate, you should get both fathers names and their occupations. This marriage was registered in Granard, Apr ? Jun 1885 Vol 3, page 159.

You can order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for ?4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). Don?t worry about leaving some boxes blank. You don?t need to fill them all in if you have the reference details. http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Tick the relevant box on the form.

Ahoghill Antrim -- Thank you for explaining to me that the Civil Certficate would have the fathers' names and occupations.  I had assumed (incorrectly) that since the church record did not have the names, that the civil record would not either.  I will make that request right away.  Thank you.

While we are on the subject of marriage certificates - I am having a problem locating a church or a civil record for another set of great grandparents -- Anthony Brady and Catherine Heery of Relaghmore, Co. Cavan (Bailieboro, Moybolgue area).  I find church records for the Baptisms/Births of all their children, but no church record of their marriage.  My question now is -- Can I write to the GRO in Roscommon and ask them to SEARCH their records for a marriage that I can only assume took place before the birth of their first child in 1869?  Will they look for something that I'm not sure even exists?  I'd love to find that record because it could verify who their fathers are as well.  Thanks for taking the time with my questions.  Tom Kearney

Tom,

The civil certificates contain much more information than the church ones, and are always a better option where there is one. (Civil certs started on 1.1.1864 for RC marriages and 1^st April 1845 for all other denominations).

Re not finding the marriage, but finding the childrens baptisms, bear in mind that if bride and groom came from different parishes, tradition was to marry in her church, and thereafter she?d attend her husband?s. So the church where the children were baptised may not always be the same church that they married in. And of course if that church?s records are lost or are not on-line that could account for not finding them on rootsireland.

Yes you can write to Roscommon and ask them to search. They may charge a couple of Euros for that. Relaghmore is in Bailieborough civil registration district and so if they married in the bride?s church you would expect to find the marriage registered there. I have searched the indexes and cannot see the marriage either.

In the early years of RC marriage registration, not every marriage was reported to the civil registrar as it should have been, and so one explanation could be that this marriage was one of those. Another was that it took place pre 1.1.1864 and so didn?t need to be reported to the civil registrar. By way of background, when the Government introduced compulsory civil registration of marriages in Ireland in April 1845, the RC church declined to participate. They felt that the state was interfering in what was essentially a religious matter, and had no business gathering this information. The Government therefore allowed them an exemption. By 1864, the Government had introduced compulsory registration of marriages everywhere else in the UK and so decided to compel the RC church in Ireland to participate too. RC priests in England & Scotland were going along with it without objection. But not all Irish priests were happy with this and for a few years in some parishes, some ?overlooked? sending the details to the Civil Registrar. The unfortunate consequence of this is that some of the marriages cannot now be traced.  Particularly frustrating if it also happens to be a parish where the church records are also now lost (as happened quite a bit).

Elwyn

Thank you, Elwyn.  This past week has been fruitful in tracing parents of great grandparents.  It all came together with the photocopy of the Civil Registration of Marriage for Thomas Carney and Rose Mathews (m. 17 May 1885) that I received from GRO in Roscommon.

The father of Thomas Carney (Kearney) is Pat Carney, farmer.  The father of Rose Mathews is Michael Mathews, farmer.  So, the 1856 Griffith's Valuation for Clooneen, Co. Longford showing Michael Mathews leasing a house to Patrick Kearney makes sense.

Michael Mathews along with a John Mathews and a Lawrence Mathews (all brothers?) seem to have a lot of property in the Griffith's Valuation lists for Clooneen -- some they lease, some they seem to be landlords of, and some they occupy.  Does anyone out there have any of these Mathews in their families?

Also found this week is the gravestone at Mullinalaghta Graveyard for Margaret Kearney Kiernan (1893-1973), daughter of Thomas Carney (Kearney) and Rose Mathews.  She is buried with her husband, John Kiernan (1893-1969) and their son John (1931-1960).  They had lived in Kilmore, Co. Longford at the time of their deaths.  There are still two Kiernan children unaccounted for -- Rose B. Kiernan (b. 1929) and James B. Kiernan (b. 1930).  I look for them because if they are alive they would have info about the Clooneen Kearney/Mathews.

And I'm still looking for information about 2 other daughters of Thomas and Rose - namely Mary Kearney and Rose Kearney who both went to America between 1901 and 1911.  I do not know if they married or remained single.  Rose Kearney arrived at New York in May of 1905 and went to the home of her aunt, Mrs. Casey in Bristol, Connecticut.  (Mrs. Casey turns out to be a sister of Thomas Carney (Kearney).  After that I know nothing.  As for Mary Kearney, I haven't been able to find her emigration record.  America seems to have received dozens of Rose and Mary Kearneys in the early 1900's., so I've not been able to tie them into any census records.

Thank you again for your help.

Tom