Dore and O'Connell of Glin

Marianne:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I checked on Roots Ireland and did not find an 1865 church baptismal record. I did find an 1864 record for a Bridget Dore with parents Michael Dore and Elizabeth Fitzgibbons (see below). I also located an 1865 civil index record for a Bridget Dore in the Glin registration district. First name(s)BridgetLast nameDoreRegistration year1865Registered quarter/year1865Registration districtGlinVolume10Page304

For James O'Connell, I located an 1868 baptismal record for a James Connell in the Glin RC records. (see below).

Roger McDonnell

Name:Bridget DoreDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:13-Feb-1864Address:
Parish/District:KILLEEDYGender:UnknownCountyCo. Limerick
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Michael DoreMother:Elizabeth FitzgibbonOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Gerald FitzgibbonSponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Ellen Dore

Name:James ConnellDate of Birth:28-Nov-1868
Date of Baptism:1-Jan-0Address:?Parish/District:GLINGender:UnknownCountyCo. Limerick
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Patrick ConnellMother:Mary ConnorsOccupation: 
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Mathew KeaneSponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Mary Keane

Thanks for the info. I have Bridget's birth certificate so I knew her dad was James Dore and her mom was Mary Fitzgibbons.......was interested in her parents. I'm new to this research. 

I have a little more information about James O'Connell as we discussed above. I got a DNA match with a man from Killkenny whose great grandmother was a Catherine O'Connel and he thinks she may have been born around 1853. She married a guy named OGrady. We are pretty confident that his Catherine and my James may have been brother or sisters or cousins. So, I am looking for any info about siblings named John and CArherine OConnel with the above birthdates. 

Marianne:

Does your DNA match have a copy of the civil marriage record which would show the father of Catherine? I sent you an 1868 baptismal record for a James Connell in Glin. You didn't say whether or not that record was a good lead.

Roger

Still trying to figure this out. We now beliveve that James birthdate on his headstone of 1857 is wrong. His birth date on several NY Stae census is 1853. We also believe they were not married in 1801, as they were already in the US and thier first child was born here in May 1891. They were here by 1889 we think.

If anyone can help....we have found lots of info in regards to Bridget's family via the 1901 and 1911 census. Of course, Bridget was gone to the US by then, but her dad was James Dore and her mother was Mary Fitzgibbon and she was born on April 16, 1865 in Glin.

Lucky someone who was helping me with research has sent me the marriage certificate for Bridget Dore and James O'Connell. They were married in Glin in March of 1891( I think it says March 13th)Roman Catholic Chaple of Glin registrars district of Talbert. He was living on Church Street in Glin, she was living in Glin but I can't read the street. Her fathers names listed as James Dore (carpenter)  and his father James O'Connell(laborer) ...which is our first hint at his dad's name. Finally! Patrcik Mangan and Lozzie Dore were witnesses. Bridget did I have a sister Lizzie. Family story is that James was a gardener for Bridget's family. Bridget told her granddaughter here in the US that she had never washed a dish before she came to the US, so,we believe their family had money. The timeline has us intrigued....James lived in the US in Cortland NY..he worked for the Cortland Wagon Company in 1889...... Yet they were married in Glin March 1891..... And most interestingly their first child Kathryn was born in May 1891 in Cortland NY, in the US. So, she was pregnant when she got,married, and must have endured quite the trip over on the boat, being very pore grant to,have that baby in May. That's why we originally did not think they weeee married in 1891......but there must have been a scandal! Anyways, we are still searching for Information on James family. We are pretty confident he was born around 1853, not 1857. Now we know his dad was James also. Where do I look next?

Ok if anyone can help. I have found a great deal of info on Bridget and her family via 1901  and 1911 census info. Of course, Bridegt was gone to the US by then, but as it says on who birth certificate, she was born in Glin on April 16, 1865 in Glin to James Dore and Mary Fitzgibbon.

Marianne:

I looked on Roots Ireland and there were nine baptismal records for a James Connell/O'Connell from 1848-1858 in Limerick. Below is the only one in 1853 and it happens to be in Glin.

Roger

Name:James ConnellDate of Birth:13-Aug-1853
Date of Baptism:1-Jan-0Address:KillaneyParish/District:GLINGender:UnknownCountyCo. Limerick
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:James ConnellMother:Cath. RuddleOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:James ConnellSponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Andrew Ruddle

Thanks so much Roger! This has to be our best guess that it is him. I am going to try to order his death certificate from here in the US and see if it says anything about parents name and this date. I will try to research more O'Connells with these same parents. Can you tell me how to go,about ordering this birth certificate??

Back again Roger! I feel like I am so close! Can you tell me where to search to find the record you sent above about James? I am doing most of my searching via ancestry.com, but that record will not come up! Another ancestry member also sent me infor about siblings: Maragret born in Glin in 1857  and Bridget born in Glin in 1859 and I was able to come up with those records via a search in Ancestry. But I can't get James. The other ancestry member also said there are records for another brother Cornelius born in 1855 and I can't find  those records either. The 1901 and 1911 census from Glin says another sister Mary and I also can't find anything on her! Any guidance would be so appreciated! Marianne

Roger I'm sorry to keep bugging you. My sister in law was looking at the microfilm..we finally found it on the parish site...and she says it looks like the name is Jacobo Connell for both the he father and son? Do you think that is just a misspelling by whoever else wrote it down on the actual document??

Roger I'm sorry to keep bugging you. My sister in law was looking at the microfilm..we finally found it on the parish site...and she says it looks like the name is Jacobo Connell for both the he father and son? Do you think that is just a misspelling by whoever else wrote it down on the actual document??

Marianne:

Jacobus is Latin for James.

Roger

ius 

Roger you are a gem! Thanks so much for clarifying that! I saw it and thought "oh no!" Stuck again! So, I promise two more things you calls possibly help me with? We found  the brother Cornelius also, with James as Jacobo! Now, I am wondering, where would I search to go back even farther to,find the marriage record for Cathering Ruddle and James OConnell? I have used the Irish Geneology website and tried to search then parish website via that, but nothing comes up. That microfilm parish website - is there a way to search names on that site? When I get to the page and pick a parish all I can figure out how to do is scroll through all those handwritten names and that's almost I impossible! I feel like I am doing something wrong! Also here is another mystery with this family I am having trouble with. The 1901 census and the 1911 census show that three is another sister, Mary, Connell, living with Margaret and Bridget. In 1901 the mother Catherine is also still alive. So, we are now looking for information on a sister Bridget, parents James Connell and Catehrine Ruddle . I did search the Irish Geneology site but came up with nothing, it's interesting on those census Roger, the birthdates for the three daughters don't match up exactly with the parish records I found on each of them, but even the dates between 1901 and 1911 nt make sense. I think mine of the sisters had her age in 1901 as 42 and in 1911 it was 47..... LOL.... Ten years later and she only aged 5 years. I have learned not to make much of those dates sometimes!    I want to thank you and send you a big (hug) for helping me! We have been searching so hard to find information on James O'Connell and we finally have his family! We are so excited and his two grandchildren, who are now in their 80's are just so overjoyed to know something! Of course, we did figure out that Bridget Dore had to be about seven months pregnant when she married James OConnell in that church in  Glin, then had a 4-6 week trip on a boat to the US, to then have the baby.we are still trying to figure out the scandal...because James lived here in Cortland in 1889, working with Bridget's brother at tehnCortland Wagon Company. So, at some point in 1890 he had to have traveled back to Glin, the pregnancy occurred...unless of course the baby want his!  I guess we will never know!! They had five children pretty quickly and unfortunately James died, leaving Bridget here in the US with five small children. In Glin, her dad was a carpenter/ contractor, and we think pretty well off......but after James died she had to "take in wash" to support her family,    Not quite the American Dream she expected!    It has been fascinating piecing it all together and I thank you so very much!!

Marianne:

I checked on Roots and could not find the marriage record. Then I looked at the parish register http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0884 and it starts in October 1851 so likely they were married before October 1851 and the record is not available.

Below is the record for Bridget.

Can you tell me the townland where the Connell family in 1901?

Roger

Name:Bridget ConnellDate of Birth:29-Jun-1859
Date of Baptism:1-Jan-0Address:?Parish/District:GLINGender:UnknownCountyCo. Limerick
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:James ConnellMother:Cath. RuddleOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:James HoughSponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Brigt. Mangan

Hi Roger  I've tried to attach  the census records but it isn't working. The 1901 census is from Limerick/Glin/ Glin Village/ house 17. Bridget as head of house, Mary sister, Margare sister, Catherine, mother and a cousin Ellie Gready. The 1911 census has Mary, Bridget and Margaret Limerick/Glin/32 Chapel Street. Catherine must have passed by then.  The sister Mary is the one we don't have any info about.  

Oh and the name on the census says O'Connell not Connell

Marianne:

I could not find a baptismal record for Mary. Yes, the census ages were way understated. Bridget should have been 41 in the 1901 census and 51 in the 1911 census. Maybe Mary was born prior to October 1851 when records started? 

Also, if Ellie Gready was an unmarried niece would that imply that there was another sister who married a Gready or did one of the sister have a child out of wedlock?

Roger

Thanks Roger I guess we are at the end of the road but we are soooo excited to have this info on James' parents and some siblings ..we had nothing before! There is a man on ancestry who is a DNA match to my husband......His great great grandmother was Catherine O'Connell....she married a John OGrady......when I look at his ancestry tree Catherine and John OGrady don't have a daughter the age of the Gready or that name form the census.....but who knows! He thinks his great great grandma was born in 1853, but that is James' birth year.......when I saw that census I thought maybe we have a connection with that Grady name..we will keep working on it. We figured maybe Catherine is a cousin to James......but like I said who knows!

As far as I am aware your Bridget Dore had two siblings Catherine (17 February 1868). William 8 February 1869. Bridget was born or baptised 16th April 1865. Bridget 's sister Catherine (Kate) was married to my great great uncle Michael Dillane. They had twelve children in Glin. He was a tailor. If can suppy details of this family, if you wish. Mary Ellen

hu Hi Mary Ellen

I do have the sister Catherine in our family tree married to Michael Dillane....but I would love any info you can share! We have plans to return to southern Irleand in 2019 and hope to make a trip to Glin since we know Bridget was from there and it seems her husband James OConnell was too. We would love to meet family there. I am trying to research now about a bar/ pub owner in Glin who is a Dore descendent? Anyways, I did not know about the brother William. Two other siblings came to Cortland NY with Bridget. Her sister Nellie/Ellen who married here but never had kids. And a brother James who they called Johnny....he was also married. We have been to their grave sites in Cortland. In my records these are the siblings I have for Bridget, and I have her birth certificate so we are for sure talking abort the same Bridget: Nellie and James ( who they called Johnny) who came to the US, your Catherine, and I also have a Gerald, Mary and Lizzie.....but I don't have much info on them so I'm not sure about them, I think it was census info but if you have direct knowledge of the family then I can rely on info from you. However for sure there were the two siblings who came to Cortland and your Catherine. So I,would love any info  you can share! As you can see from the notes above, we have a couple of family stories that said Bridget's dad was a contractor and that the family had money and James OConnell was their gardner. And we are mystified about Bridget being very pregnant when she got married and traveling to the US very pregnant, and the fact that her groom James OConnell was living I the US. Wondering if it was his baby.....and how that happened with him living in the US.i can also share anything you would like about the family here in the US! I look forward to hearing. from you! 

Hi Marianee, I am in contact with Catherine's grandaughter in Ireland and her great grandson Kevin in Australia. So they should know who is living in Ireland and where? Don't know about the pub connection, but I can ask. Kevin is descended from a Gerald Dillane named for the Dore side of the family. Also Catherine and Bridget had an uncle Gerald. I will ask about Bridget & Catherine's father James. Should be able to give you contacts in Glin also  Kevin's grandfther Gerald Dillane (Dillon) married in U.S.A in Cook County, Illinois to a Kate Barrett. We also have a picture of Catherine and another of her husband and children.  Will also check about James O'Connell. My email address is reking@bigpond.net.au  Mary Ellen

This may help; Gerard Geoghegan of The Magpie Bar in Glin has a plaque relating to a member of the Dore family who was involved in the events of 1916. Sorry I don't recall more details-perhaps a possible connection to the Cregan family!

Hello,

I thought I would chime in because I am fascinated reading all of these stories, yet can't connect the dots. I think the challenge is that every family had the same names! I also have a Catherine and James O'Connell born in Glin. Mine looks like this:

Born to Daniel O'Connell (Senior) and Bridget Kent in Glin:

Maria  1854 April 19

Helen 1855 Oct 4

Michael 1857 Jul 10

Catherine 1858 Sep 28

John    1860 Mar 7

Patrick 1862 Apr 29

Bridget 1864 Apr

Daniel 1866 May 26

James 1868 Dec

Margaret 1871 Dec 17

My ancestor is Daniel born in 1866 and who emigrated to Rochester NY around 1891. It sounds like the James I have, born in 1868, is not yours, but could certainly be a cousin. Perhaps the father (James) of your James is a brother to my Daniel (Senior).

Their mother, Bridget, died in 1876 leaving many small children and I am on a quest to discover what happened to them all. I too am planning a visit to Shanagolden/Glin in Summer 2019.

Not sure if any of this matches, but it's good to share it!

Wendy

Hi Marianne and others.

  With a DNA match to a New York based person with Ruddle in his family tree I was able to establish my grandmother's connection to the Ruddle family was both via the Mulcare and Geoghegan families.

Since then I have been looking at where the name Ruddle, in Glin records, turns up not only in marriages but also as witnesses and sponsors for baptisms. Among those I have noted was the christening of Cornelius Connell son of James Connell and Catherine Ruddle on 11 Nov 1855.- a strong hint that Cornelius was a traditional Connell family name and very likely your Connells. The sponsors were David Ruddle and Johanna Ruddle.

While I don't have strong documentary evidence for any but two Ruddle siblings, Andrew (b about 1808/9), who married Johanna Mulcare, presumed sister of my great great grandmother, Catherine Mulcare, and Patrick Ruddle (b about 1811), I believe David ( 1822-1872) was another of their brothers. That leaves approx 11 years when I would be surprised should there not have been more children born. Thomas m 1852, Catherine m before 1852, Johanna and Mary who also show up as sponsors or witnesses are likely to be of the same family.I believe there were not many Ruddles living near Glin at the time though other families were in townlands such as Clounties and Ballyane with records in Shanagolden parish.  If that conclusion is reasonable then they could well be children of David Ruddle and Catherine Geoghegan. I don't know when David died but Catherine Ruddle is listed on the Griffiths Valuation in Turraree Upper and her death is recorded in 1866 suggesting a birth date about 1786. Although some speculation is involved that would then take your family back one more generation and make us very distant cousins

. I hope this helps, Regards, Anne