Michael McGrath from Co. Kilkenny and Catherine Brennan from Clough, Co Kilkenny

Ann:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out! You have certainly accomplished a lot with your family genealogy.

I know you checked Roots. I did locate an 1838 baptismal record for a Catherine Brennan in the Clough records. This Catherine had a father John and mother Eleanor. However, Walsh, Welch and Wall did not work for the surname of the mother.

There are three links below. The first link has background on when Clough/Clogh parish was formed from Castlecomer. The second link is to the Mormon site and shows two films of RC records for Castlecomer and Clogh. You may have already gone down this path but you could order one or both films online and have them sent to the Family History Center in Ottawa. The third link is to the church in Clogh. It might be worth contacting them if you have not done so already.

Roger McDonnell

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/carecord.htm

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/11802?availability=Family%20His…

http://www.ossory.ie/parishes-and-people/diocesan-database/parish-detai…

Thank you Roger. I apologize for not getting back to thank you sooner. 

I will be spending 3+ months in Ireland beginning on Jan 6, 2017 - a couple of weeks from now. I'll be staying in Bunclody, Co Wexford and will have a car. It's not a very long drive to Castlecomer.

I have since found out that Michael McGrath's mother, Mary Maher/Meagher, was not only the grandmother of Michael's son William but also of William's wife Elizabeth Seguin. This was discovered when they had to get a dispensation to marry. It seems that Mary Maher had remarried a man named Hugh Toole or O'Toole and had come to Canada. The information on the records I've found is not very clear. At some point I found a record of that marriage in the Castlecomer area but recent searches have not turned it up again. What is odd, is that Hugh Toole married Mary Maher in Co Kilkenny in 1835 and they had a daughter Elizabeth (mother of Eliz. Seguin) and a son James. What is odd is that Mary's surname was given as Maher. If she had been the mother of Michael McGrath who was born circa 1823, would she not have been widowed by William McGrath's death? Why would her married name not have been given on the marriage record? Maybe she had never married Wm McGrath?

Do you know if there is a family history centre or historical society that I could visit somewhere in the Clough/Castlecomer area in the next couple of months? Would public libraries have any useful information?

I'm very much looking forward to my Winter in Ireland and hope to break down a few more brick walls. It would help if all of my ancestors had not had ordinary common names, and usually the surname which was most prevalent in the area they came from. 

Ann Burns (Sunnyseeker)

Ann:

Sounds like a fantastic trip. Here is a link to the library branch in Castlecomer. The library is a good starting point but likely the main library in Kilkenny town would have the most info.

 http://www.kilkennylibrary.ie/eng/Libraries_Locations/Castlecomer_Libra…

Here are a couple links.

http://kilkennyarchaeologicalsociety.ie/

http://kilkennyheritage.ie/

http://www.kilkenny.ie/kids_life_directory/history/south_kilkenny_histo…

Merry Christmas!

Roger

HELLO ANN. BY NOW YOU MIGHT ALREADY BE IN IRELAND SO I DO HOPE YOU GET TO SEE THIS MESSAGE. I TOO WAS GOING TO SUGGEST A VISIT TO THE LIBRARY IN CASTLECOMER, THEY ARE VERY HELPFUL. WHILST YOU ARE THERE ASK IF THEY HAVE THE EMAIL ADDRESS OR CONTACT NUMBER FOR MARGARET McGRATH, nee BRENNAN. THIS LADY IS A LOCAL HISTORIAN AND WITH THE SURNAMES YOU ARE RESEARCHING SHE MAY BE ABLE TO HELP. ALSO IF YOU CONTACT ROTHE HOUSE ANOTHER VERY HELPFUL LADY NAMED MARY FLOOD WHO IS THE GENEOLOGIST MAY ALSO BE ABLE TO ASSIST YOU, FOR THIS YOU WOULD NEED TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT. I DO HOPE YOU MANAGE TO FIND SOME INFO - I KNOW HOW EXCITING AND HOW DISAPOINTING RESEARCHING FAMILY CAN BE... I AM A BRENNAN...CASTLECOMER IS FLOODED WITH THEM :-)  ALL THE BEST. ROSIE.

Hi Rosie - I am in Bunclody, Co Wexford, and have been here since the first week of January. Maybe I'll take a little trip to Castlecomer tomorrow - it's not far. I was in that area last week but just driving around with one of my Byrne cousins from near here. We found the townland of Crutt where I believe Eleanor/Ellen Walsh is from. Then we had a nice lunch in Castlecomer. I have been working on my Fennells from Laois but a change would be nice. Thank you for the suggestion of contacting Margaret McGrath. I will certainly try to reach her.  

Also thank you to Roger. I had seen your reply Roger but as it was just before Christmas I had forgotten about it. The time is passing quickly and I'm already planning to come back next winter. No matter the rain, it's milder than Canada. I do know this is a mild winter and dare I hope for next year to be the same. 

It was Mary Flood who sent me the Church records for the Walsh-Brennan marriage and the baptisms of the children. I have a subscription now to rootsireland.ie. Do you think that Rothe House has additional records? I will also give Mary a call and possibly set up an appointment.

Thanks again to both of you. If you happen to come to Bunclody please get in touch.

Ann

Ann:

Thanks for the message and feedback on your trip. My wife and I were in Ireland last November and likely will be back next fall. My mother was also a Brennan but they were from Donegal.

Roger

HELLO ANN. I AM SO PLEASED TO KNOW THAT YOU DID GET TO SEE MY MESSAGE. JUST AS A MATTER OF INTEREST - WHAT YEAR WAS YOUR JAMES BRENNAN BORN? AND DID HE STAY BEHIND IN IRELAND? DURING MY RESEARCH I DID COME ACCROSS A JOHN BRENNAN WHO MARRIED AN ELEANOR 'WALSHE' (PROBABLY WRITTEN AS IT SOUNDS BY PRIEST). MY GREAT GRANDFATHER WAS A JAMES...AND HIS FATHER A JOHN, HENCE THE REASON FOR MENTIONING THE ABOVE MARRIAGE. BEST WISHES ROSIE.

SORRY...ITS ME AGAIN...I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT THE MARRIAGE TOOK PLACE IN 'COOLNALEEN' WHICH IS ALSO IN CLOGH....ITS IN BETWEEN CRUTT AND CLOGH.. I WILL SORT OUT MY ANCESTRY FILES LATER TO SEE IF I CAN GET A DATE AS WELL. ROSIE,

HI Rosie

I have that marriage (John Brennan and Ellen/Eleanor Walsh) in Coolnaleen in 1830 and the baptisms of the four children - Catherine, Margaret, James and William. I got a printout of the information a few years ago from Mary Flood. It always seemed odd to me that there was such a long time between the marriage and the arrival of the children. Also, Catherine married in 1854 so she must have been born before 1838.

If you can make a connection to others (Brennan or Walsh) that would be amazing. Could we be related? John died either after arriving in Canada or somewhere between leaving Clogh and getting to Canada. Ellen remarried in 1848 in Ottawa to a John Doyle. Catherine is my gg grandmother. I think I have found Margaret in Ottawa also. No sign of the boys anywhere in Canada. They were not with Ellen Brennan Doyle in the 1851 census and they were still young enough to be at home.

My biggest dream now is to meet living cousins. I've managed to meet the Byrnes in Coolross, near Clonegal and in fact a few of them were here for supper tonight.

Thank you again. I look forward to your next message.

Ann

HELLO ANN. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR REPLY. ITS GREAT GETTING A RESPONSE AS FOR SOME STRANGE REASON SOME JUST DONT BOTHER AT ALL. MAKES YOU WONDER WHY THEY BOTHER TO JOIN THESE SITES IN THE FIRST PLACE. FOR ME THIS IS ALL ABOUT RESEARCHING MY FAMILY AND ANCESTORS, THE MORE COUSINS I FIND WHETHER THEY ARE 2ND 3RD OR 4TH - THE MORE DELIGHTED I AM. HOPEFULLY ONE DAY WE CAN EXTEND OUR TREE TO PASS ON TO GRANDCHILDREN ETC....ALTHOUGH THAT RECORD FOR JOHN AND ELEANOR IS ONE THAT FOR ME WAS A 'POSSIBILITY' AS THEIR 'JAMES' CAME UP AS BORN AROUND 1840. SO ITS POSSIBLE HE DID STAY IN IRELAND....MY MOTHER ALWAYS SAID WE HAD RELATIVES IN CANADA BUT I JUST ASSUMED SHE MEANT ON HER SIDE. HAVE YOU DONE THE ANCESTRY D.N.A. TEST? I HAVE AND NOTICED A WHILE AGO THAT I WAS CONNECTED TO A MCGRATH...4-6TH COUSIN?? SO THIS COULD BE A LEAD FOR BOTH OF US. I NORMALLY TAKE A TRIP TO IRELAND AT LEAST 4 TIMES A YEAR BUT AS I AM IN THE PROCESS OF SELLING MY HOUSE I JUST HAVENT HAD THE TIME. SHAME AS WE COULD HAVE MET UP - I HAVE LOTS OF COUSINS DOWN THERE IN WEXFORD. ANYWAY - DO LET ME KNOW ABOUT D.N.A. AND DOES THE BIRTH YEAR FOR JAMES SOUND ABOUT RIGHT?? BEST WISHES. ROSIE BRENNAN,

Hi Rosie

Yes I have done DNA testing. My resutlts are on ancestry dna and ftdna and on gedmatch. My kit numbers on gedmatch are A535501 and T429438. On FTDNA I'm Ann Burns. My brother Tom Burns also tested and his results are there. On Ancestry I think it's also just Ann Burns. My tree is attached in both Gedmatch and Ancestry. I'm going to check out the matches in ancestry again.

Where do you live? I'm from Ottawa ON Canada. Sounds like you are somewhere in the US. I had thought you were in Ireland because I just assumed the responses would come from here, which is just silly of me.

James would have been born about that time - 1840. Fingers crossed that we are cousins.

Ann

HELLO ANN. I LIVE IN A SMALL TOWN/VILLAGE CALLED RADLETT WHICH IS IN THE COUNTY OF HERTFORDSHIRE. U.K. WAS BORN AND RAISED IN WILLESDEN GREEN WHICH IS NORTH WEST LONDON. MY PARENTS MET AT AN IRISH DANCE HALL IN CRICKLEWOOD IN THE LATE 1930'S. THEY BOTH CAME FROM KILKENNY SO HAD A LOT IN COMMON APART FROM DAD BEING 12 YEARS OLDER THAN MUM - SO THEY DID NOT KNOW EACH OTHER AT HOME BUT BOTH KNEW OF CERTAIN FAMILY NAMES AS IN NEIGHBOURS ETC. MUM WAS FROM A FARMING FAMILY IN FIRODA, BALINAKILL, WHICH IS NORTH OF CASTLECOMER AND DAD WAS BORN IN DUNMORE WHICH IS ON THE MAIN KILKENNY/CASTLECOMER ROAD, HIS FATHER JOHN WAS A LABOURER, HIS GRANDFATHER JAMES A LABOURER AND HIS GREATGRANDFATHER 'JOHN' I BELIEVE A LABOURER. BEING LABOURERS THEY CERTAINLY MOVED AROUND THE NORTH SIDE OF KILKENNY QUITE A BIT. IT WAS ALL DEPENDING ON WHEREVER THEIR WAS WORK AVAILABLE..I DO KNOW THAT MY JAMES MARRIED A MARGARET COONAN IN 1874, THEY WERE BOTH FARM SERVANTS IN KNOCKNADOGUE AT THE TIME OF THEIR MARRIAGE AND PROBABLY LIVING AT PLACE OF WORK. THEY THEN MOVED ON TO 'VAN DIEMANS' DONAGUILE WHERE THEIR FIRST TWO CHILDREN JOHN (MY GRANDFATHER) AND ELIZA. WERE BORN, THEN MARTIN, MARY AND THOMAS WERE BORN IN MOTHEL AND CORBETSTOWN, MUCKALEE. THEY WERE NOW LIVING A STONES THROW AWAY FROM MUCKALEE IN A LITTLE PLACE CALLED 'INCHAKILL GLEBE'... MY DAD BORN IN DUNMORE WAS THE YOUNGEST OF 6 CHILDREN...THE ELDEST BEING 'LENA' WHICH I AM LED TO BELIEVE IS A VARIATION OF THE NAME ELEANOR OR ELLEN. AS FAMILES BACK THEN FOLLOWED THE 'NAMING PATTERN' THEN THE NAME GIVEN TO A FIRST DAUGHTER WOULD BE AFTER HER MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER......THIS IS ANOTHER REASON I HAVE HELD ON TO THE RECORD OF ELEANOR WALSHE AND JOHN BRENNAN AS A POSSIBILITY..WOULDNT IT BE JUST INCREDIBLE IF WE FOUND WE WERE RELATED....BUT THEN, IF WE COULD GO BACK FAR ENOUGH WE WOULD FIND ALL OF BRENNANS ARE RELATED ANYWAY....NOW I AM GOING TO CHECK OUT ANCESTRY TO SEE IF WE ARE CONNECTED ON THERE. WILL BE BACK IN TOUCH SOON. ROSIE.

HELLO ANN. APOLOGIES FOR DELAY IN REPLYING TO YOU, HAVE HAD A BUSY COUPLE OF WEEKS WITH FAMILY BIRTHDAYS, SALE OF MY HOUSE, HELPING A COUSIN WITH HER VISIT TO ME FROM THAILAND IN MAY, A FEW DAYS AWAY DOWN IN KENT TO CATCH UP WITH SOME FRIENDS.... I MANAGED TO FIND QUITE A FEW BURNS ON ANCESTRY BUT AN ANN BURNS DID NOT COME UP. ALSO I COULDNT FIND HOW TO INPUT YOUR DNA KIT NUMBERS...MAYBEYOU COULD GUIDE ME ON HOW TO DO THIS. ARE YOU STILL IN WEXFORD? HOPE YOU ENJOYED CELEBRATING ST PATRICKS DAY. I WENT OUT WITHMY SISTER TO A FEW IRISH PUBS IN THE AREA WHERE WE GREW UP - HOPING TO HEAR SOME GOOD OLD TRADITIONAL MUSIC, NO.... ITS WAS MOSTLY TAPED MUSIC OR DJ'S... MET SOME PEOPLE TO CHAT TO THOUGH. DID YOU PICK UP ON ANYTHING IN MY LAST EMAIL THAT MADE ANY CONNECTION TO YOUR BRENNANS? LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU. ROSIE.

I have just become interested in the Brennan surname as I am trying to find a connection to John Walsh from piltown Kilkenny my great great grandfather on my maternal side of my family who may have married a Catherine  Brennan The boundaries between Kilkenny, Waterford and Tipperary over history moved so records over the years can vary in were they are stored. My grandparents spread out from Kilsheelan Tipperary, Kilsheelan Waterford, Carrick on suir Tipperary carrick beg Waterford to piltown Kilkenny to mooncoin Kilkenny. When I looked at a map it looked like they followed the river that separates the areas and at the same time can connect these areas. The diocese of Waterford and Lismore covers areas of Tipperary. Checking areas diocese covered for Roman Catholic records for years your searching could lead to consider records maybe previously discounted.

Best regards

Toni Connolly-Swinerd

Hello again after a few years. Rosie, are you still on this trail?

I will be in Ireland again for the entire month of March - less than 2 weeks from now. I have found DNA cousins in my McGrath line and both our families trace back to the Clogh area - notably Crutt, Moneenroe and/or Coolalean or Coolnalean. Michael McGrath my gg grandfather married Catherine Brennan in Ottawa Canada in 1854. He was about 31 and she was about 17. Some records seem to indicate that their families might have emigrated together to Canada in 1847. Most of the information I have is earlier in this thread other than having found McGrath DNA cousins in Kilkenny and Wexford. So far we have traced them all back to Crutt but have not found the common ancestor. Based on the amount of DNA we share, it's quite possible that our gg grandfathers were, or could have been, brothers.

There is also a connection to Hugh Toole who married Mary Maher, mother of Michael McGrath. I presume she was a widow. they had three children: Catherine, James and Elizabeth. I do have ongoing information about Elizabeth in Canada. Michael's son William married his half-sister's daughter Elizabeth Seguin. They got a dispensation to marry as they shared a grandmother - Mary Maher. 

By any chance has any connection turned up to descendants of the Brennans and Walshes that I mentioned in my early posts? Or a possible death record for William McGrath, likely in the 1820s, given his son Michael's age and the arrival of Mary Maher's daughter Caherine with Hugh Toole?

I'd love to meet with anyone in the Crutt/Clogh/Castlecomer area who might have a clue to help - or even just meet for a cuppa. I will go to the library in Castlecomer and probably in Kilkenny. I think I have all the info found at Rothe House. 

This is just a wild hope that someone seeing this post might have some information to share.

Good day to all. I hope Storm Dennis didn't treat you too badly.

Ann Burns from Ottawa, Canada

Hello Ann. Great to hear from you..and yes I am still trying to trace my Brennan’s... Guess what - I too will be in Durrow/Kilkenny from Thursday 19th March until Sunday 22nd. Going over with 3rd and 4th cousins that I have met through dna matches. How about meeting up? I did email you some time ago re our connection and dna match... If you would like to email me directly please do so on rosegarden1954@outlook.com Looking forward to hearing from you. All the best. Rosie.

Hi Rosie:

Please let us know if we can be of any assistance to you on your trip to Kilkenny.  You can email me directly at:  jhalloranryan@irelandxo.com.

All the best,

Jane

Ann, I think I have every surname you mentioned, but don't know anything about any of those names they come up as matches on Ancestry. I did not see where you wrote your GED no. can you write that , mine is A960797 Mary Martin. The name connected to yours would be Ryan,Roe,Cuddy. If u have a chance write back. Good luck.
Mary email mayofireland@yahoo.com

Hello Jane. Many thanks for the invite to contact you. As you will read above both myself and Ann Burns will be meeting up in Ireland, although a date is not currently set in stone. Once Ann finds herself settled we will correspond in regards to meeting place and date. I will however contact you via your email address shortly. With kind regards. Rosanna Brennan.

Hi Rosie:

Thanks for letting me know.  I have started making enquiries for you both.

Keep me posted.

All the best,

Jane

Hello Jane and other helpful folks

I've learned that the probable nickname for my Brennans is either GARD or GAID. With the transcriptions it is hard to sort out which is correct.

Does that ring any bells with anyone? Are there any Brennans with that nickname still in the Crutt/Clogh area of Kilkenny?

I am in Co Wicklow/Wexford area now and would be happy to travel to visit or meet with anyone who might have more information.

Ann Burns