Help with Confirmation of Griffin's Valuation information

Griffiths Valuation for Fieries was compiled in 1853. The information on Jeremiah O’Connor shows he was farming plot 5a which comprised 104 acres 2 roods & 13 perches. (40 perches in a rood, and 4 roods in an acre). He had a farmhouse, offices (ie outbuildings) & land. His immediate landlord was the Earl of Kenmare and he also had 5 labourers cottages on his land which he was subletting (though 2 were empty at the time the information was gathered). The local school was also on his farm though it was not his property.

The header sheet tells you who the tenant was, who his immediate landlord was (or if owned outright it will show “in fee”); then there’s a description of the holding ie whether there are any habitable buildings, a mill, a school etc; then it’s the size of the land; then a breakdown of the rateable value (in pounds shillings & pence), by land by buildings and totaled. These records were compiled for taxation purposes. So what this is, is an assessment for tax purposes, of the size of the land, the quality of the land and of the buildings.

Immediate lessor means the person that you rented from. That might not be the owner, as there were often chains of sublets. However in this case with the owner being the Earl of Kenmare, he probably did own it.

104 acres was quite a big farm for Ireland at that time. Plot 5 is shown fairly clearly on the Griffiths map. The location of the farmhouse 5a isn’t shown (sometimes they are shown) so you would need to make local enquiries. The maps are not quite contemporaneous with the 1850s Valuation. They were drawn up about 20 years later. I notice that on the map, the school is on plot 7 (not in 5a’s lands) so that suggests that some of the farm boundaries may have changed. The O’Connor farm was by far the biggest in the townland in 1853 but it isn’t on the map, so I am fairly sure the boundaries were changed by the time the map was drawn up.

There’s a set of records in the Valuation Office in Dublin which takes the original 1850s information forward right up to the 1920s. Those records are known as the Revision Records. They are not on-line yet so you need to go to, or e-mail, the Valuation Office to find out how long Jeremiah lived there.

You might also find his probate abstract on the NLI wills site:

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/home.jsp

(That site isn’t working properly at present so I haven’t been able to check for you).

The 1823 tithe applotment records show Michael, Patrick & Terry O’Connor farming in Fieries then.

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

There was still 1 Connor family living in the townland in 1901, though they don’t appear to have been farming:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Kilnanare/Fiaries/1417734/

There were only 10 houses in the townland in 1901 and so it’s likely that these are related to the Griffiths family.

The O’ prefix on an Irish name is detachable and was often dispensed with (as was Mc) and so you need to be aware to search under Connor as well as O’Connor.

Thank you Elwyn, your reply is so expeditious and very easy to understand.  This info appears to be actuate and I will continue on with your helpful links you have included. More research on this inquiry/reply and I will post my find with you.  Thank you very much, Phil

Hello Elwyn and Happy Easter.   My mind has been running wild, many thoughts and many Irish site that I could not log onto.

Here is some of the thoughts from your reply.  My family history tells me that g-g grandfather Jeremiah Connor  b. 1794 (Jerry O'Connor) was born in Tralee.  I have learned that is probably semi-correct.  When I find what looks like a close call/fine, there is always one item in the infomation that does not match with what has been handed down to me.  I should let myself alter to the records but I am a believer in facts and resources. 

I think I have found my g-grandfather Jeremiah O'Connor b. 1824 birth record in Killorglin Parish, address Knockeelyne. The record date indicates Baptism 2 Mar 1823. This close and I can live with that.  The record indicates Father: Jeremiah Connor, Mother: Mary Cournane, Sponsor 1 John Browne, Sponsor 2 Johanna Browne..  Here is my racing thoughts, this record is not my g-grandfather because the mothers name is suppose to be Bresnahan.  But look who the sponsor are Browne.  This I believe is the family name of Earl of Kenmare.  Maybe I'm on to something, a connection to Griffin's Valuation shows g-g-grandfather Jeremiah living on the Earl property and possible managing it.  What do you think, am I streatching this too far?  Also is the John O'Connor on the property a son of g-g-grandfater, or a sibling to my g-grandfather.  My brick wall comes into play when I cannot find or confirm/resourse dates and locations.

So here I am with a rambling thought process and thought I may reach out to you to get an insight of what I'm thinking and what direction I should go.

Phil,

Farmers tended to stay put as much as possible. It doesn’t make sense to spend years improving the land only to move and start all over again. Though it did happen of course, both for agricultural reasons and when people were evicted. In this case I see that there were Connor/O’Connors farming in Fieries in 1823. So there’s a lengthy link with the same place, as you might expect with a farmer. my feeling is that your Jeremiah born c 1824 was most likely born there.

Fieries is in the RC parish of Kilnanare. However they have no baptism records earlier than 1830, so if Jeremiah c 1824 was born there, then there won’t be a record of it.

Now Jeremiah Connor/O’Connor is a very common name in Kerry. In the 1901 census there were 98 of them there. I suspect you have been searching the RC parish records for any Jeremiah C born c 1794. It so happens that Killorglin’s records start in the 1790s so you have found someone whose details roughly match the information you have but it’s miles away from Fieries, and I doubt there is any connection. It’s another Connor family altogether, I would say. (Sorry).

If Jeremiah b c 1794 was born in the RC parish of Tralee, you might expect to find a record of that as their records start in 1772. If there isn’t then that could be because the records are too faded to read or because he wasn’t born there at all.

The information in Fieries in Griffiths doesn’t suggest to me that Jeremiah was managing the Kenmare estate. I think he was simply a tenant farmer.

The managing agent in the 1850s appears to have been Thomas Gallwey. A little history about him and the estate here:

http://www.muckrosshouseresearchlibrary.ie/Kenmare-Estate.php

The other O’Connor in Fieries in Griffiths is probably related to your family. (They lived beside each other) but there’s no way of telling from Griffiths how they were related. You could follow the tenancy records in the Valuation Records in Dublin to see who replaced him. (They are not on-line yet). You might also be able to find his will, in which case that might give some clues too.

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/home.jsp

Hi Elwyn, the following is a copy/paste from your reply above, I cannot find a link or 1823 record of Connor/O'Connors. "In this case I see that there were Connor/O’Connors farming in Fieries in 1823. So there’s a lengthy link with the same place, as you might expect with a farmer. my feeling is that your Jeremiah born c 1824 was most likely born there".  ​Is there a link to this record?

The 1901 Census show the Connor ladies still on the property.  Mary 60, head of family, may have been the wife of Jeremiah Sr. son, sibling to my g-grandfather Jerry O'Connor (Jeremiah Connor 1824).  The 1911 census doe not indicate any of the female Connor's on the property.

More later Elwyn, have to run.  Phil

Phil,

The link is given in my post of 9th April above, re tithe applotment records 1823.

I have not been able to use that link.  The link you shared take me to the 1823 Tithe Applotment but as I am adding the info either person or place I cannot get futher than Townland. Kerry/Killnanare/Fieries.  I show no. listing for Fieries and so I cannot go any futher.  I must be missing something here.

Elwyn, I'm sorry, your right about the link.  I even found that I saved a copy in my Documents.  I just was not entering the correct Parish, Kilnanare.

Time for a break !!!!!!!