My great-grandmother Margaret Lynch Wall, born 1886, was the daughter of Thomas Lynch and Honora Sullivan, and her siblings (from what I can tell) were Denis, Daniel, Jeremiah, Thomas, John (Jack), Nora, Mary (Minnie), Catherine (Daisy), and Johanna (Joan). Margaret emigrated to America in 1911 and joined her sister Minnie in Chicago, who had come a few years before. Their uncles Daniel and Henry Lynch had also emigrated and lived in Chicago. I recently located an index for the death certificate of the same Daniel Lynch, who died in the Chicago area, which stated his parents were Denis Lynch and Margaret Healy (sic) and that he was born 10 January 1865. churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie turns up a Denis Lynch and Margaret Haley (sic) in Kilgarvan who had sons named Thomas (baptized Aug 1855) and Daniel (baptized 12 Jan 1865), which squares with what little I know of them. The Thomas Lynch I found in Meelick, Kilgarvan, in the 1901 and 1911 Irish Censuses I estimated to be born around 1856 or so. It's a bit mystifying since in the 1901 Census he and Honora are 45 and 43 years of age respectively, but in the 1911 Census they are 58 and 60 years old.
Margaret's other siblings, Joan and Daisy also went to the U.S., though Joan went back to Ireland around 1930 and eventually married a Sullivan and had a daughter, Peggie. She took care of Thomas and Honora until they died in their 90s, within a short time of each other, my grandmother thinks six months to a year apart. In the early 1960s she sent for Daisy when Peggie was leaving home to get married, who went back and would have been in her mid-60s by that point. The letters from Joan Sullivan have an address of Tomies, Beaufort, Killarney.
Another brother, Jeremiah (Jerry), also went to the U.S. and worked briefly for the Chicago Surface Lines before setting out westward, perhaps for Arizona, and dropping out of any further contact.
Nora (Nonie) went to England, married, and had children, but my grandmother says she and her husband "died early," perhaps of TB. My grandmother has a picture of a little girl on a rocking horse that she thinks is her Aunt Nonie's daughter.
John (Jack) went to England, my grandmother believes he was in London at some point, but does not know much about him.
My grandmother says that when Joan was in Chicago for a year (she had been in New York for some years prior to that), before she went back to Ireland around 1930, she told Margaret and Daisy that one of their brothers had been arrested and put in prison by the Black and Tans.
Any contact from anyone who has information about this family would be welcomed and greatly appreciated!
Friday 6th Jul 2012, 05:31PM
Message Board Replies
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Hi there,
You mention: "It's a bit mystifying since in the 1901 Census he and Honora are 45 and 43 years of age respectively, but in the 1911 Census they are 58 and 60 years old."
Well, in answer to that, there is one possibility (besides the fact that sometimes the ages can be as you mention in this case, can be up to ten years out!). What has immediatley sprung to mind as a possibility is that they may have put in an appilcation for the old age pension when it was first isssued in 1908/09. Applicants had to prove that they were of pensionable age and sometimes green forms were filled in using information from earlier (and now mostly destroyed) census records from 1841/51. There have been instances where there has been a jump of ten years or so in age, between the 1901 and 1911 census records. This may be a reason for this discrepancy.
The other possibility is that these two are not the same Thomas and Honora you are searching for.
You can check for information about the frequency of the name in the mid-19th century and any other variant spellings of the name here: http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/ As you have already seen, the spelling can vary quite a lot, so it is important to bear this in mind when researching.
Do you know much about their emigration? Dates, the reason why they left, etc.? Generally more information was given at the port of arrival rather than the port of departure. If you knew which city they arrived at (e.g. Liverpool), this could be a good place to find more information.
Could you please post your message on the Beaufort page here: http://www.irelandxo.com/group/knockane-kerry and Tomies here: http://www.irelandxo.com/group/aghadoe-kerry
You could try checking the land records called the Tithe Applotment Books (1823-38) or the later Griffith's Valuation (1848-64). The Tithe Applotment Books (1823-38): Microfilm copies of the books for all of Ireland are available at the National Archives of Ireland (NAI) http://www.nationalarchives.ie/genealogy1/genealogy-records/tithe-applotment-books-and-the-primary-griffith-valuation/ or the Church of Latter Day Saints (LDS). Griffith's is freely available here: www.askaboutireland.com or here: www.failteromhat.com Failte Romhat has lots of other useful links you could try looking at.
Please make sure you link anyone else in your family who is interested in their Irish heritage to our site - and indeed anyone else you know of Irish heritage.
Kind regards,
Sinead Cooney
Genealogist (Ireland XO)
Wednesday 18th Jul 2012, 10:51AM -
Thank you, Sinead -- these tips of where to continue searching for more information are very helpful! And certainly it had occurred to me that the Thomas and Nora Lynch that I found in the 1911 Census in Meelick, Kilgarvan, might not be the same as the ones from ten years prior. However, three of the children are still listed at home on the 1911 Census, and their ages have followed the natural and normal progression. Thomas and Nora would be my 88-year-old grandmother's grandparents. She has always said that her own mother was rather, um, let's say "fluid" about her own age when asked, and rather secretive about it and her birthday, too. I have some confirmation of this in when I found my great-grandmother Margaret's marriage certificate through FamilySearch.org, she was clearly fudging a bit and making herself a few years younger than she should be...same with at Ellis Island! Also, she appears in the U.S. Censuses as variable ages. Though part of this is probably not just attributable to fibbing about age for various reasons but also to just not being aware of exactly how old one was back then because birthdays were not as important of a phenomenon as they are now, and also to errors made by the people writing down the information.
All that said, though, what you relate regarding the discrepancy being attributable to the old-age pension verification process makes sense, too.
The concept behind this site is a fantastic one, and I will pass it on to other family members who are doing genealogy in Ireland. I have been participating in a local genealogy club, and I am also going to share the link at the upcoming meeting next week.
Thanks for your help!
Kimberly Murphy Wilbanks
Wednesday 18th Jul 2012, 03:54PM -
Hi Kimberly,
Yes you're absolutely right about the detail of a correct age not being terribly important at one time, and also for the simple reason that people were not always sure when exactly they were born.
That's wonderful about the genealogy club - what a great event to be involved in. It's a great way to meet like-minded people, and it can also be a place where you can help each other out. Please do let everyone know about Ireland Reaching Out. We will be in Milwaukee for the upcoming Irish Festival, so perhaps we will see you there!
Kind regards,
Sinead
Thursday 19th Jul 2012, 09:15AM