Legananny

If you have a look at the PRONI website and search on James Brown of Donaghmore or T2279/2, you?ll find his reminisences which tell you a bit about life in the early 1800s.

As far as church going was concerned, for members of the Church of Ireland (which I recall your family were) the countryside is divided up into parishes and so they would normally attend the local parish church for their townland. In this case, Drumgooland, also known as Ballyward church. About 2 or 3 miles from Legananny. See picture on attached link:

http://www.downanddromore.org/parishes/drumgath#.VEwrMr4zKnu

The land in that area is rolling small hills, being in the foothills of the Mourne Mountains, and being covered with drumlins (glacial moraine). The land is reasonably good for farming. By and large Co Down was, and still is, quite a prosperous county compared with some other parts of Ireland.

There were usually small shops every few miles, so that there was always one within walking distance of where you lived. Some were combined pubs and shops. Some farms also had shops, selling their own produce as well as other good eg whiskey. Some was by barter rather than cash, as people didn?t earn a lot of actual cash, save from linen. People might go into the nearest big town on a fair day for bigger purchases.

Children would have attended until they were about 12 or 13 but were often kept back from school if needed on the farm, so often left with a fairly low level of education.

Also, from: http://ukga.org/ireland/Down/towns/Drumgooland.html

There is a school for boys and girls at Ballyward, built and principally supported by C. F. Beers, Esq.; the parochial school, adjoining the ruins of the old church, is supported by the vicar and Miss Beers; and there are six other public, and five private, schools, also three Sunday schools. In this parish are several large and nearly perfect raths and forts; at Legananney is a large cromlech, of which the table stone is supported by three large upright stones; at Mullaslane are four large upright stones; a fifth, but smaller, stands not far off, and in the adjoining field is a single upright stone of enormous size. In the gable of the school-house at Drumgooland is a large, perfect, and ancient stone cross, which formerly stood in the churchyard, but, having been thrown down and broken, it was built into the wall by the late rector: the shaft and cross are of porphyry, and the plinth of granite.

"It is situated on the A50 Banbridge to Castlewellan Road at the junction with Station Road. From Banbridge, pass through Katesbridge and Moneyslane, the church is on the left at a bend."

Does this give me an idea of what neighboring towns and villages attended Ballyward? I'd kinda already figured out the Church was called Ballyward, but I thought it was named after a street. At least one of my ancestors married someone from Castlewellan and someone from Moneyslane was mentioned in a will.

Are there other townlands to consider? If they went to town for the fair would that be Leitrem, or Castlewellan, or another town? I've tried to look at maps, and I can find the streets, but some of the smaller townlands aren't even mentioned. 

Would it be feasible for someone from Legananny to have friends and family living in Dromore or Downpatrick?

It would appear from the wills that the Armstrongs and Martins were able to educate at least one child, usually the youngest. I read several wills with provisions for this. The oldest son was usually given the farm and responsibility for his mother and any non married sisters. The second son was also given property, and it appears they owned several houses as they refer to them. It also appears at least some of the homes included apartments. I'm not sure what they're refering to when they talk about the use of the kitchen, but there are ofter provisions for this as well. It also appears that to receive your inheritence you must remain faithful to your spouse and children and not remary. 

I've run into the Beers name on several occassions. I think one of the Martin girls married a Beers, but I haven't be able to verify it, and since it's not a direct line, I haven't spent much time on it. 

Can you tell me anything about a Hall? Is it a gathering for men? Or is this where they go to obtain legal advice? It appears the owners of the Halls were appointed excuteors to the wills quite often. From what little I've gathered, it appears the Halls were some form of "lay" government and cared for the needs of their towns and villages, but it's hard to tell. I probably am way off on this one. 

Thanks again for your help! 

Wow, bogs? My brother lives by a bog, they're quite remarkable, and quite uncommon here. The country side must be beautiful! I've seen a few pictures and I've followed some of the roads using street view in googlemaps, but I'll bet I am not even able to begin to understand how peaceful and serene this country is.

Wow, bogs? My brother lives by a bog, they're quite remarkable, and quite uncommon here. The country side must be beautiful! I've seen a few pictures and I've followed some of the roads using street view in googlemaps, but I'll bet I am not even able to begin to understand how peaceful and serene this country is.

thanks so much for this great description of the area where my ancestors lived!

Lotsahunters, I think that we've been in touch comparing our MARTIN families. I'm still stuck on getting back before the 1830's ... Jospeh MARTIN m. Elizabeth "Betsy" JAMISON about 1833. Their daughter Elizabeth Jamison Martin b. ca. 1833 m. David LITTLE in Dromore 2nd Pres. in 1856. Betsy passed away and Joseph married Mary ADAIR in Dromara Pres. in 1836. They all came to the US in November 1856 and settled in Western Maryland, US.

every good wish!

Yes, still trying to figure that out. As it stands right now my ggggrandfather may be the illegitamte son of a Robert Martin from Dromore and a Jane Patterson from Drumgooland. But he would have been born in the mid 1700's. Unfortunately all I have to go on is information passed down from my ggrandfather who immigrated to New Zealand in the late 1800's. His mother,Mary Martin, b 1826 married William Armstrong, b1822. I suspect her sister was Sarah Martin, b 1823 because she married William's brother Robert Armstrong, b 1818. It is possible there was also a Joseph Martin, as William and Mary named one of theri sons Joseph. Joseph Armstrong, b 1865 is their 7th son. Both Robert and William Armstrong followed the traditional naming pattern. 1st son John (their father) 2nd Son Robert (Sarah & Mary's father) Robert's 3rd son ws named William (robert's next younger brother) Robert broke tradition on the fourth son and named him Edward Perry Brookes (alll I know is he was an ecleastical leader) William and Mary had twins and named the boys James(3rd) and Hugh(4th). Robert's 5th and last son was also named James (younger brother). I don't know if Hugh was another brother, I don't have any record of it, Last brother on record is James. Williams 5th son was named after him, then Samuel, Joseph, and David. I don't know where these names came from - was it part of the tradition to name son's after their mother's brothers, once the paternal list was extinquished? Not sure what happened with the girls Robert - Esther, Sussana, Mary, Margarett, Sarah, Margarett; William - Esther, Jane, Annie, Mary, Sarah. Good indicator that Esther was Sarah and Mary's mother, which is why the next name was not Robert and William's mother as her given name was also Esther. 

Happy Hunting!

lotsahunters,

I think the term townland may be causing some confusion. There usually isn?t a town in a townland. The word town is a bit misleading.  Disregard it. Townland is just a term to describe an area of land - a clearly defined area with specific boundaries. So places like Legananny, Moneyslane,  Leitrim etc have no town in them. These are rural agricultural areas, with anything from 1 to 150 households, depending on the size of the townland. Legananny consists of 1894 acres and in 1863 it had 113 households.

The reason you can?t find many of these townlands on modern maps is because they are too small to be worth marking. Only certain specialist maps such as Griffiths show them. So if you want to see the boundaries defined, use those.

Townlands are uniquely Irish. No other country uses them. They are nothing like US townships. (Their origins are lost in the mists but some reports say they were designed as a way of sharing the land out fairly. But whatever the explanation they remain a fundamental land unit, and were used in legal documents such as leases and wills and other official records. Most have no road names or (until recently) house numbers. The townland alone was sufficient to identify you, or get a letter delivered. (The postman, and anyone else who needed to know, knew where each family lived).

The nearest town to Legananny is Castlewellan. After that the nearest of any consequence are Banbridge and Ballynahinch. But these would be a full days outing, and so visited just now and again. Those are the towns where a fair would be held. Castlewellan still has one. See link:

http://www.castlewellanshow.com/index.asp

If you google ?Pictures of Drumgooland? you?ll get a few of the local area which should give you an idea of what it looks like. There?s also one of Legananny dolmen (5000 years old), as well as of Legananny school.

It would have been perfectly possible for someone in Legananny to have friends in Dromore or Downpatrick, though they probably wouldn?t have seen them that often. Farming is an activity that required you to stay on the farm much of the time. Cows need milked twice a day and so getting away has always been difficult. Your ancestors may well have had access to horses and carts in which case their options would be wider but for most people walking was the normal method of transport. Most were every fit and so 15 miles a day would be perfectly reasonable if you could be spared from the farm. (My wife?s grandmother lived in Fermanagh and never held a driving licence. She walked everywhere, and often walked 10 or 15 miles a day even into her 70s. That was obviously how it was in the Legananny area too).

Regarding disposal of property on death, you are correct that the eldest son usually got the farm. Where the farmer was successful and had more than one property (and quite a few did) then sometimes a second son got a farm too. But otherwise everything went to no 1 son, provided he was willing to take it on. The main thing was not to subdivide the land between the sons, leaving it all too small to be viable. (That?s why so many sons had to leave and go to America or Scotland, or wherever). And it?s also why the farm was rarely left to the wife. The important thing was to keep it in the family. So you left it to the son, so that it passed to the next generation. The widow was then given a life interest. That is to say she could live in it, but on her death it passed entirely to the designated son. Should the widow remarry her life interest would lapse. (A remarriage could otherwise lead to the farm passing on to someone other than the designated son). It was all about protecting the land for the next generation. The references to kitches etc was the farmer trying to deal with the possible awkward siutation whereby his son and daughter in law did not get on with his widow. (Not an uncommon situation). So you often see detailed instruction on what is to happen if they start fighting. I have seen instructions on where dividing walls are to be erected and new entrance doors knocked through. Likewise you often see reference to the provision of milk, potatoes, linen and the use of the good parlour on Sundays. All intended to try and keep the peace. Unmarried daughters were often given the right to live on the farm till they married or reached say 30 years of age. (No pressure there then!).

Concern for the land is probably a strong factor in all cultures but if you want a good idea of how it is regarded in Ireland, I can recommend the film ?The Field? which is based on a play that sums it up perfectly. See:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099566/

"Bull" McCabe's family has farmed a field for generations, sacrificing endlessly for the sake of the land. And when the widow who owns the field decides to sell the field in a public auction, McCabe knows that he must own it. But while no one in the village would dare bid against him, an American with deep pockets decides that he needs the field to build a highway. The Bull and his son decide to convince the American to give up bidding on the field, but things go horribly wrong.

I am puzzled about your reference to a hall. It?s not something that a farmer would routinely build. (A barn yes, but not a hill). Was it by any chance an Orange Hall (ie for the use of the Orange Lodge)? Can you give me an example of where there is reference to it, and I might be able to help you more with that query.

Elwyn

Was or is a townland an old plantation? or a Ranch? This explains a lot. So the term Legananny is like giving an address. William of Legananny, William of Leitrim, and William of Moneyslane. William Jr. of Legananny doesn't mean William Sr.'s son, but refers to a younger William in the same community? So in the Griffiths Evaluation Robert Martin Sr. and Robert Martin Jr. are not necessarily father and son? After following the naming pattern of Robert and William, I got to thinking that perhaps I should look at Susanna too. Susanna Armstrong b 1824 married James Martin b 1822 and Robert Armstrong and Robert Martin appear to be witnesses. James was 20 and Susanna 18, which must have required parental consent. Their children Ester, Rosan, Mary, John, Martha, Annie, Susanna, and James also follow the same pattern. Ester is Susanna's mother, and since Jame's mother would also be Esther. Robert, James's father, then John, Susanna's father, and finally James, making James the only boy in the Martin family. Once again the females are random. What do you think? I'm almost certain now that these three are siblings.

Was or is a townland an old plantation? or a Ranch? This explains a lot. So the term Legananny is like giving an address. William of Legananny, William of Leitrim, and William of Moneyslane. William Jr. of Legananny doesn't mean William Sr.'s son, but refers to a younger William in the same community? So in the Griffiths Evaluation Robert Martin Sr. and Robert Martin Jr. are not necessarily father and son? After following the naming pattern of Robert and William, I got to thinking that perhaps I should look at Susanna too. Susanna Armstrong b 1824 married James Martin b 1822 and Robert Armstrong and Robert Martin appear to be witnesses. James was 20 and Susanna 18, which must have required parental consent. Their children Ester, Rosan, Mary, John, Martha, Annie, Susanna, and James also follow the same pattern. Ester is Susanna's mother, and since Jame's mother would also be Esther. Robert, James's father, then John, Susanna's father, and finally James, making James the only boy in the Martin family. Once again the females are random. What do you think? I'm almost certain now that these three are siblings.

Sorry, not sure why it's doubling my posts, the first post says the word verification was wrong, then the next attempt posts it twice. 

If you look at the map of the US States, in many cases, the division of the states is just arbitrary. Sometimes with straight lines and sometimes following natural features. That?s all townlands are in Ireland, only on a much much smaller scale. It?s just a way of dividing the land up into administrative units. Nothing to do with plantations or ranches.  Which are unknown in Ireland anyway. What Ireland has, and still has, is just a multitude of small farms. By and large the land is fairly productive and so you could feed a family on 10 acres or more. Someone with 60 or 120 acres would be pretty wealthy. Today a typical farm is probably 150 acres. That would normally give you a very comfortable income, with plenty of spare cash.)

Senior and junior (in Griffiths) in the same townland are normally father and son. So Wm Jr and Snr should be father and son. Two people of the same name in the townland, who are not father and son, are usually known by agnomens (nicknames) rather than by jnr and senior. 

For reasons I don't understand, I can't attach anything to this particular e-mail, so I'll send you a separate e-mail with a bit more information on Griffiths.

Ok, here's a map from Ross Davies 

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/MAPS/Drumgo…;

So it's feasible that my ancestors would have had interactions with anyone in Drumgooland as they all attended church in Ballyward. 

Is it also feasible that their social group included folks from Gransha, Finnis, Dree, Drin, Moneynabane, Drumreerah, Dooglen, and Guiness? 

I'm talking about regular social interactions, such as schooling and neighborly aquaintances, people they might marry. 

Am I correct in thinking the Martins could have come from any of these places, as well as anywhere in Drumgooland? Am I also correct in thinking that it isn't likely the Martins were outside these areas? 

I don't know what I'm actually wondering because it is most likely the Martins are from Legananny, especially if three siblings married three siblings. However the dates for the Martins in Legananny and the dates for the Martins I have don't seem to match up. Robert Martin Sr 1808-1891, and Jane ? could be my Robert Martin and Jane Nicholsen, but the children were born in 1822, 23, and 24 (based on census reports)  it is possible the approximate birth year of 1808, which I have as being on the death registration is off, but Robert Martin Sr 1808-1891 had Robert Martin Jr 1840-1914, William Martin 1843-1883, and Margaret Jane Martin, b unknown. since the proprety was left to Robert Martin Jr, I'm certain he's the oldest son. It isn't feasible that my Robert Martin was not the eldes, as Mary Martins father is Robert Martin, her Grandfather is Robert Martin, and her GGrandfather is Robert Martin, which indicates Mary's father was the first son.

So I guess I'm considering these things. First, Mary's father is indeed the illegitamate son of Robert Martin and Jane Patterson, which would mean no property to inherite if his father chose not to assume responsiblity; or her Grandfather, Robert Martin had no property to leave, so her father Robert Martin had no land. William and Mary's marriage certificate shows her father Robert Martin as a Farmer, since Mary was born in 1826 and married William in 1846, her father would have definately been affected by the famine, and perhaps imigrated or died. too early for death registration. I don't suppose they kept records of who received releif.  

2nd is that there are three Robert Martins and not two on the Griffiths. I'll have to go back and look. The last possibility is that they are not from Legananny, I'm thinking I'll begin by searching the Griffith's Evaluation in feasible townships. Perhaps I'll find something there. I still haven't been able to figure out how to put a modern map over the Griffiths map, and if I could figure that out it would help considerably. 

Yes, I would really love to come to Ireland, my children are almost grown now, perhaps in the near future. I'd want to be able to stay long enough to visit the countryside, visit distant relatives, and do some research. 

Thanks so much for all your help!!!!  

looks like your making great progress! which is not an easy task to do with the Many Martins of County Down :) I've not been able to get anything new on my Joseph who might tie into your line. 

I, too, value naming patterns to help sort this all out. 

So glad that you're posting all of this info and your questions, as I'm learning a great deal from IXO responses. 

all the best! let's keep in touch!

For some reason, I had thought I'd read you mention Morrison - but now don't see it, but will post this anyway. 

My 2nd great grandmother, Elizabeth Jamison Martin (daughter of Joseph) was married to David Little 1 October 1856 in 2nd Dromore Pres. Church. The witnesses were Robert Morrison and Jane Magee who were most likely relatives, tho could have been friends. 

Any connections to either of these family names? 

(sometime feel like I'm playing Crazy Eights when doing genealogy - haha)

every good wish

If I remember right, the commonality was James Martin, who I had bellieved to be Mary's brother, I had three children with three marriages, connected to Mary as siblings. We have since determined that none of the marriages in question were likely related to Mary. My Martins were Church of Ireland "folks", or at least Mary was after she married. I do have a few Martin wills that are not online, didn't cost much to get. Have you tried that avenue? This and the Griffiths is where I gained all my knowledge about the Legananny Martins. Do you know what occupation Joseph and/or his father was in? Lucky for me, farmers tend to stay put. The Mratins in Legananny appear to have done quite well for themselves, they were able to maintain two farms and each generation appeared to aquire enough land, as to pass land down to the 1st and 2nd sons. I've talked with decendents from the Legananny Martins and they say they have a family bible, but haven't been able to find it. Last known place of origin was on the "old farm". Finally, does the marriage record give information about their residence? 

Happy Hunting!

Thanks for replying with some more info - suggestions - questions.

Joseph Martin was a weaver and in 1856 he lived in Lisnacurran (aka Listullycurran, etc.) which is just NW of Dromore. I was told here at Ireland XO that it was common for weavers to move about the area, going where the work was available. 

I'm not sure about his religion prior to 1836 when he married Mary Adair in Dromara Pres, but a volunteer at the Dromore Cathedral (CoI) seemed to think that my Jamisons were in that church in the early 1800's. 

Not knowing who Joseph's father was has made it difficult to sort through possible wills to see if there's any pertinent info. Using naming patterns, his father may have been Thomas, as that's the name of his first son. 

Griffiths gave me tons of Martins, but with Joseph moving around, I'm not sure which is 'mine'. I did find all 3 of my surnames (Martin, Jamison, Little) living in Drumgooland 1828 Tithe Applotment which makes me think there might be a connection because of proximity, but still not sure.

sigh ... One of these days, I will find my Ulster ancestors before 1830! :)

every good wish!

Lotsahunters,

Yes it?s feasible that your ancestors would have mixed with people from adjacent townlands such as those you have named. Indeed their immediate social circle was probably anywhere within a 5 mile radius.

Schooling would have been more local with most schools being within a mile of where people lived.

As far as marriage was concerned, you tended to marry someone from your own vicinity. Since the normal method of travel was on foot, save for some wealthier people, the majority of the population were more likely to marry someone from a neighbouring townland than from somewhere 20 miles away, for obvious practical reasons. (That started to change in rural Ireland with the arrival of the bicycle (c1860s) which enabled people to travel further and so meet people from further afield). The arrival of the railway also widened people?s opportunities in the 1800s but Ballyward didn?t get a railway till about 1905 so that was quite late.

Farmers didn?t move about much. They tended to stay in the once place if they could. If you have spent 25 years improving the land, you don?t willingly up and move somewhere else, unless there?s a good reason. So for the Martins who were farmers, I would expect them to have been in the area, if not on the same farms, for several hundred years. Conceivably right back to the 1600s when they would have first arrived.

Regarding Robert Martin?s year of birth, if the information is from a death certificate, then it?s only as accurate as the informant?s knowledge. Mistakes on death certificates are very common and ages can often be out by up to 10 years. In general men married around 23 and women a year or two younger. If you have no other guide, then I?d work on that. Unless it was a second marriage of course. One in 8 women died in childbirth or as a result of post natal complications, so second marriages were fairly common.

Regarding the famine, if your ancestors were farmers in Co Down, the impact wouldn?t have been too bad. They would have got through it OK. Most farmers in Co Down had reasonable sized farms and weren?t one crop dependent. They grew a variety of produce, and perversely the prices for corn and some other produce were very high, and consequently though any potatoes they grew would have been ruined, they would have got by on their other produce. (It was weavers and agricultural labourers further down the social scale, who only had a few perches of land, and who therefore only grew potatoes, who were hit more by the famine. Though even then, many of the weavers in Co Down had a little income from linen making, a source not available to much of Ireland, and so again they weren?t quite as badly off as other parts).

Drumgooland falls within Banbridge?s Poor Law Union. Their admission records are in PRONI in Belfast. If you want, and assuming the records are complete, you could search them for Martins from Legananny for the famine years, to see if any were ever admitted. (I?d be surprised if they were).

To put a modern map over the Griffiths map, you use the slider bar in the top right hand of the screen. Slide it from one side to the other and it changes from the 1860s map to the modern map. You can leave it so that you can just see both simultaneously.

Elwyn

Elwyn, 

Yes, I can see that, I broadened my search for the Martins on the Griffiths and they own a lot of Benraw also, some are the same, a few are different.  James Martin is even documented as (Legananny). I was only able to look at Benraw and then have a quick look at wills. Only newer ones and no images. I've got a lot of work cut out for me, trying to peice the families together. They built 2 Orange Halls, one in Legananny, and one in Benraw, or more likely the same property is in both Benraw and Legananny. I assume the reason they named a child Edward Perry Brookes was because they were pleased with his service and the soup kitchen. From what I can tell, Orange Hall is a religious orginazation, likely what we call humanitarian or non profit organizations today. I live in a rural area, but not as rural as Legananny, so I finally caught on. We also have small incriments of land called wards, about 150 families. These areas can be quite large if the familes are farmers. Patterson doesn't show up in the area until the 1900's so if Jane Patterson is his mother, they were'nt farmers. I' excited to have some thing to research. Gotta go for now, but if you could check to see if there are older Martin wills in Benraw for me, I'd appreciate.There's a Joseph in Benraw, but he's a farmer - his father is John from what I can gather, and he married an Ann J. Robert Martin is there too, likely died around 1915, passed property to John Henry, who passed it to William McCracken. I don't know how to determine if the property was sold. I've only see the comment "in fee" once. 

Thanks! 

Becky

Thanks for this Elwyn. Good luck with your search lotsalhunters!

Best wishes
Clare Doyle
Genealogy Support

lotsahunters,

Regarding wills for Martin in Benraw, go to the PRONI wills site and enter Martin as the surname and Benraw in the box marked ?Full abstract?. This will bring up all the wills, from 1858 onwards that PRONI has for Martin households in Benraw. There are 7. None of them are on-line, and so if you want to read the wills, I would need to get them from PRONI for you. I checked for pre 1858 wills for Benraw (which is on the PRONI name search site) but there are none listed.

If you want to see what life and activities were taking place in the Benraw area in the 1840s, have a look at Lord Annesley?s letter book.  Extracts are on-line on the PRONI e-catalogue site ref: D1854/6/5

Regarding the Orange Lodges that your family were connected to, the Orange Order is an organization with a sometimes controversial history. Essentially it?s members were a Protestant fraternity, determined to prevent Home Rule in Ireland (ie to prevent Ireland becoming a separate state). Following the partition of Ireland in 1922, its focus has been on ensuring that what is now Northern Ireland remains part of the UK. Here?s a link to their website, which should explain a bit more background:

http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk

10 Armstrongs from Legananny, 10 Martins from Benraw, and 7 more from Legananny signed the Ulster Covenant in 1912, at Drumgooland Church of Ireland. You can see their individual signatures on the Ulster Covenant website:

http://applications.proni.gov.uk/UlsterCovenant/search.aspx

(The Ulster Covenant was essentially a declaration by people loyal to the British Crown stating that they did not want to be part of an independent Ireland, and in effect, threatening civil war if it was forced upon them. Half a million people signed it, including interestingly slightly more women than men.) So this tells you a bit about the Martins? and Armstrongs political views. (And today their descendants will probably perceive themselves as British rather than Irish).

Re interpreting the information in Griffiths Valuation, you mentioned James Martin (Legananny) who is shown on plot 28 in Benraw. What that means is that that particular James Martin lived in Legananny. If you look at the holding he had in Benraw, it was land only (ie no house). So his main farm was in Legananny and he had 7 more acres in Benraw, but didn?t live there.

Regarding whether farms were sold or not, there?s no easy way to tell from Griffiths. The relevant paperwork would not normally have survived. In general, farmers liked to pass their farm on to the next generation, so many were inherited rather than sold. Only where the farmer had no-one to continue running the farm was he likely to sell it. If the farm was rented, then it could still be sold. What you were selling was the unexpired portion of the lease rather than the freehold, but it could be sold all the same.  You commented you hadn?t seen ?in fee? very often. Certainly looking at Benraw in the revaluation records it appears that pretty well the whole townland was still owned by Lord Annesley in the early 1900s. Everyone staying there was a tenant. Legananny seems much the same. (Where Robert Martin?s name appears as immediate lessor, it means he was subletting a house on the farm, rather than that he owned the property.). However by the early 1900s there were plenty of properties in Ireland where the occupants had the freehold, and so were ?in fee?. Just not in that part of Co Down evidently. Wyndham?s Land Act of 1903 in particular had enabled a lot of tenants to buy their freehold. These are marked on the revaluation records with a rubber stamp saying ?L.A.P? meaning Land Act purchase. (The government provided a 25 year mortgage to assist the tenant make the purchase).

Elwyn

Elwyn, 

I've seen that "L.A.P" in Antrim. I'm finding Martins all over the place, and most of them appear to be related in some way. One Martin I found in Finnis had a father from Benraw. Some of his children immigratred to Canada or the US. I'm working on a family in Antrim now, but haven't done enough research to see if there are any connections. I've also ran into several more Orange Halls. Looks like the Martins must have been front and center on this one; and the Armstrongs are living up to their family name. Does this mean the Martins are from England or Scotland, and not Ireland as origionally thought? I haven't looked at the links you provided yet, but will when I can. Let's not worry about the wills yet until I see if I can trace any of them back to my direct line. Same with the parish records,I can't help but think having names and approximate dates will help the search along. I also suspect searching all of Drumgooland might be time consuming and difficult. I know some of the pages are hard to read, but sometimes you can figure it out if you have an idea what your looking for. I suspect searching all of Drumgooland might be time consuming and difficult. Hopefully the Griffiths Evaluation, Calendar of Wills, and the census records will give us some insights as to where and when to search. Let me know if you think differently.  Yes, I knew about the leasing and sub leasing, just forget and say owned. Your explanation makes it much more clearer though. Once again, thanks for your help!

lotsahunters,

Yes your Martins almost certainly came from England or Scotland. Though Martin is a common surname across Ireland (with 13,875 of them in the 1901 census), in Co Down the vast majority are of settler stock.  In the 1901 census there?s 2115 people named Martin in the county of which only 207 were RC, so less than 10%. The vast majority were therefore Presbyterian, Church of Ireland or other incomer denominations (most of whom were Protestant, though there were some RC settlers too). You know that Co Down was heavily settled in the 1600s, and so it?s therefore not too surprising to find that the majority of the Martins are Protestant. (No native Irish family would join the Orange Order, so you can be fairly certain about your family origins from that piece of information alone!)

There?s about 7 Martins listed in the Muster Rolls for c1630 in Co Down, so there were evidently a few Martin households in the county at that time. More probably arrived later that century. (There was a big influx in the 1690s).

I had a look at the 1841 census for Scotland and there were only 7072 people named Martin. The same census for England and Wales had 47,876, so clearly the name is much more common south of the border than north. Perhaps that?s a hint as to where yours originate.

Elwyn