Boyd family (also Hill), Killygordon, Donegal

cbsully01886:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

We have a parish liaison for Donaghmore parish. I will alert him that you have posted a message.

Roger McDonnell

cbsully01886:

I forgot to add to let me know if you have not heard back in ten days or so. Thanks!

Roger McDonnell

You haven’t said what denomination Andrew & Margaret were. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which will be on the marriage cert (unless it was a registry office ceremony).  So what church and what denomination was that?

Killygordon is in the parish of Donaghmore.

Likewise do you know what Andrew was? If he was Church of Ireland, then the Donaghmore baptism records for 1837 and thereabouts are lost, which may account for not finding his. However there are some Presbyterian records for the area. Carnone Presbyterian start in 1834 and Donaghmore in 1835. They are probably not on-line though and you would need to look them up in PRONI in Belfast.

You mention Killygordon but was that the address for both bride & groom? If there’s a townland for Margaret, it may help identify her father’s farm. James Boyd, labourer will be harder to trace as they tended to move around a lot, whereas farmers tended to stay put.

Griffiths Valuation for 1857 doesn’t list any Thomas Hill in Donaghmore. However there was a Catherine Hill who was probably a widow, and who had a farm in Carricknamanna. She was the only farmer listed at that time. Does that townland appear on tne marriage certificate?

The name Hill is associated with Carnone Presbyterian, but the marriage cert should tell you whether that was Margaret’s church. See:

http://donegalgenealogy.com/carnonepreschstipends.htm

Thanks for the quick reply. 

I have the church marriage record.  The Parish/District is Donaghmore.  The denomination is Church of Ireland.  The actual date of marriage is 01-Apr-1860.  Killygordon is listed as the Address for both Andrew and Margaret.  Also, I have the the Baptism records for their first two children (James 31-Aug-1862 and Thomas 29-Jan-1865) is in the same church/parish - in Killygordon.

The witnesses are listed as John Robinson and William Fansten.  

I have the death record for Margaret Hill Boyd and that lists her parent's names as Joseph Hill and Catherine Robinson.  I am not sure why it says Joseph Hill as the marriage record lists her father as Thomas Hill.  Of course, I have found many errors on my journey through this so far.  I would assume Thomas Hill is correct.  It is interesting to me that the witness on the marriage certificate is John Robinson and her mother is listed on the death certificate as Catherine Robinson (Hill).  I am assuming this could be a brother or uncle???

Anyway, I have no evidence or proof as to the church affiliation of Andrew since, like you said, the marriage, most likely, would have taken place in Margaret's church.

I tried to get information about Andrew from PRONI a few months ago, but they had no records and sent me in the direction of Donaghmore, Donegal.

Please let me know if any of this information is helpful.

Thanks.

I just found a Donaghmore marriage record for Thomas Hill, address Carnamona, and Catherine Robinson, address Castelfin.  Date of marriage 24-Aug-1820.  The denomination is listed as Presbyterian.  So this has to be the same Catherine HIll who had the farm in  Carricknamanna.

Death certificate information often contains mistakes because by its nature the information is 3rd hand. Whereas with a marriage certificate the bride is giving first hand information. In most cases she’s going to know her father’s name and get it correct. So I would regard Thomas Hill as being much more likely than Joseph on the death cert. Her father was evidently dead by 1857 and his widow Catherine was running the farm.  The Robinson witness at the wedding is helpful too. Points to it being the right family.

I see a death in Stranorlar for a Catherine Hill in 1873 aged 90. (Volume 7, page 310). That could be her.  (The age might be out by a few years. Informant’s best guess and often out by 10 years or so for someone of that age). The death cert should have the place of death, and it might be interesting to see who the informant was.

It looks to me as though the farm remained in Hill hands as there is 1 Hill farm in Carricknamanna in the 1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Donegal/Killygordan/Carricknamanna/508469/

Looking at the census I see widower George Hill and 3 children. His son George was born 2.2.1905 at Carricknamanna. Mother was Catherine Kincad (Kincaid). George was a surface man on the Co. Donegal Railway. (The railway ran through Killygordon). Informant was Catherine Kincaid, grandmother. Catherine Mary Hill was born 10.6.1906. Father was a farmer at this date. The mother was the informant. James Hill was born 15.9.1907 at Carricknamanna. Father was a ganger on the railway. William John was born 26.3.1909.  Father was a surface man on the railway. Mother was Cassie Kincaid.

Cassie Hill (nee Kincaid) died 27.1.1910 at Carricknamanna, aged 32 of a premature birth.

George Hill & Cassie Kincaid married on 14.4.1904 at Donaghmore COI. His address was Carricknamanna and his father was George Hill, farmer.  Catherine (Cassie) was a blacksmith’s daughter and lived in Killygordon. Her father was also named George. This looks to be Catherine  in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Killygordon/Killygordon/1198672/

The 1901 census for Caricknamanna appears to be lost.

George Hill senior died 19.2.1908 at Carricknamanna aged 65, of gangrene. His son George was the informant. So it looks as though George junior inherited the farm on his father’s death and was able to give up his work on the railway then.

George Hill senior is of an age to be a brother to your Margaret Hill who married Andrew Boyd. Looking at the likely marriages and noting that Fanny Hill was born in Co Tyrone, I’d speculate that George Hill married Fanny Doragh in Castlederg in 1860 Volume 3, page 430. Might be worth getting that to see if his father was Thomas Hill. That might tie it up nicely.

Fanny Hill died 22.1.1916. She was a widow, and wife of George Hill.

According to Griffiths Valuation, Catherine Hill had plot 8 in Carricknamanna. That was just over 15 and a half acres. That’s about half a mile north of Killygordon. It’s shown on Griffiths maps as being in Halftown. I had a quick look at it on Google Earth and there appears to be nothing there today but farmland. The buildings seem to be down and the road into it overgrown, though presumably there’s a farmers track for access. It looks as though you might have to walk over a couple of fields to get to it.

The Hill family were Church of Ireland. This is what records exist for that church according to the PRONI guide:

Donaghmore [Earliest registers destroyed in Dublin]

Baptisms, 1818-19, 1824-9, 1884, 1886 and 1896- 1902; marriages, 1817, 1825-8 and 1845-1917; burials, 1825-8 and 1898-1984; vestry minutes, 1815- 70; register of members, 1907-10; registers of vestrymen, 1870-1948.

So you aren’t going to find Margaret’s baptism (or that of any siblings). The records were burned by accident in the civil war in 1922. (Ironically they had been sent to Dublin for safekeeping).

You are lucky to find the 1820 Hill-Robinson marriage. Donaghmore Presbyterian marriages only start in 1819. Here’s what exists for that church:

Baptisms, 1835-1961; marriages, 1819-42 and 1845- 1905. (Copy in PRONI).

So if you are looking for graves for the Hill family, I would try Donaghmore Church of Ireland. Robinson graves may be in Donaghmore Presbyterian.

Searching the PRONI e-catalogue, I came across a document that might be helpful. The reference is D1825/E/6. It’s dated 1865 and is described as: “Survey and valuation of the Killygordon estate, Co. Donegal, by Charles H. Swiney, with lists of tenants, details of their holdings, notes on leases, etc., in townlands of Bohanboy, Calhame, Mullingar, Whitehill, Cavan Lower, Corcam, Cavan Upper, Carricknamanna, Leaght. [small vol.]” The document itself isn’t on-line so if you are interested in it, you either need to go to PRONI in Belfast and view it in person, or pay them (or a researcher) to copy it.

I know you have the baptisms for the 2 Boyd children but Thomas's birth in 1865 was after the start of birth registration so you can also see his birth cert on this link:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03585/2321715.pdf

I expect you know this but from the names and denominations the Hill, Boyd & Robinson families are likely to be descendants of Scots who settled in Donegal in the 1600s. Ulster-Scots as they are known in Ireland, or Scotch-Irish in North America.

Thanks for all the information.  I do realize that the Boyd family is most likely descendants of Scots.  It was my hope to trace the Boyds back to Scotland.  I have done a DNA test on Ancestry and had a likely match with someone related to the Boyds in Killmarnock, Scotland.  I suspect it will be nearly impossible to link Andrew/James Boyd back to Scotland because of the missing records.  But I am still going to keep trying.

My brother also did a Y-DNA test, so I am hoping that we can find a connection through that as well.

Thanks again, for all of the useful information.

No you won't find a paper trail back to Scotland. There's a 200 year gap between the Scots arrival in Ireland in the 1600s and the available records which mostly start in the 1800s. We do know the identity of the big landowers in the early 1600s.  (They were called undertakers). They were required to bring tenants with them from their Scottish Estates, so you can draw some general conclusions about where tthe family might have come from based on the local undertakers. But there are no lists of who those tenants were. And no records for the 1600s in Scotland to link them to anyway. 

Ayrshire and Wigtownshire feature a lot for the original undertakers in the Barony of Raphoe:

http://www.ulsterancestry.com/ShowFreePage.php?id=92

Hi

I am descended from Boyd's myself and so even though it has been a year I thought I would repond and ask how things were progressing?

I have also had my DNA tested and it would appear that most Boyd's seem to originate from Kilmarnock in Scotland.

There is a book about the early Boyd and Lockhart families of Donegal by Jim Devitt who has since passed away.

He talks about how the Scot Boyd family first came to Ireland and is quite informative

It is free in a P.D.F. version on Family search.org.

Scotlandspeople .com.uk is also a good research site and has records going back to the 1500's.

These records also known as O.P.R.'s Old parochial records are also available on microfiche at a local Mormon Family History centre for free.

Applications for Irish pension claims is also a good resource as you had to prove how old you were when the pension was introduced and the 1841 or 1851 census was used which may contain more info.Your relatives may not be included but it is worth a try! Familysearch also has a wealth of info and is also worth a try.

Best Wishes

Rob

Rob,

Thanks for the information.  I will check out the book by Jim Devitt and on family search as well. 

I keep hoping that my brother's Y-DNA111 test will yield some useful results.  The only close match he has had is for someone named Reid whose earliest known ancestor was Mathew Reid, 1800 - 1859 Renfrew, Paisley Scotland - I am not sure what that means since the Haplogroup for Mr. Reid is different than my brother's.  Though, I do realize there can be mutations which could explain this.  I really have to do some research on how to interpret the DNA results.

Anyway, I will keep plugging along.  I do believe in the Kilmarnock connection, as I said in a previous post, it appears my DNA test pointed to someone whose ancestors were from Kilmarnock.  

I really do appreciate this latest information and please keep in touch if you find anything further, and I will do the same.

Carolyn

My great-great grandfather, Thomas Hill, was born in Killygordon in 1827. From a range of sources, I’ve discovered his father was also Thomas, a farmer, and his mother was Catherine. From the information in this thread it seems that Thomas (1827) is the brother of Margaret and George. Thomas married Isabella Stewart in 1851 in the Donoghmore Presbyterian Church. They emigrated to Brisbane, Australia in 1856. There are many names that are common to those mentioned above in the family they produced in Australia: Margaret, Catherine, Thomas and Fanny. When Thomas died in 1889, even though his home was in the city of Brisbane, the house was named Woodland Cottage, another connection to this part of Donegal. Thank you to all who have contributed as I now know Catherine’s surname and that there are more Hill connections to be found.