Looking for my Great-great Grandfather John Campbell

Hi Marcia

There are 2 baptism records of John Campbell (1 is Camble) in Derry 1826 on www.rootsireland.ie/

However neither is from Coleraine

There is also a record of the marriage of John & Anna 1877; parish is Coleraine Registrar's Office

http://derry.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=0&prevStartQuery=0

It costs to view the full record but it MAY have the parents' names.

Col

Thanks for your comments, I did buy the Marriage Certificate but no parents were mentioned on it. Unfortunately, as John was born in 1845 the baptismal records will not help. He was Presbyterian if that helps. thanks again for your time, Marcia

Sorry that the parents' names weren't there & that I got the wrong year - I hate getting old!!

I had another look and there is a baptism of John Campbell in 1846 in Lower Cumber Presbyterean parish.

http://derry.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=0&prevStartQuery=0

However on the parish map of Derry Lower Cumber is a long way from Coleraine!

I was in Derry last month and at the Derry Genealogy Centre a vetry knowledgeable and experienced genealogist named Brian Mitchell offers free advice to those looking for their ancestors.

http://www.derrycity.gov.uk/Genealogy/Derry-Genealogy

If you have not already done so, you may also want to have a look at PRONI (Public Records Office of Northern Ireland); there are some free searches there (Freeholders etc). I searched for Coleraine in the search box in the main page and found the reference below which shows the Latter Day Saints film record nmber for Coleraine. You can order this through your local Family History Centre for a few $.

 http://www.proni.gov.uk/guide_to_church_records.pdf

Finally, do you have access to ancestry?

If not, if you supply a few more details about John (place of residence &/or death) I can check the public member trees to see if anyone might have him in theirs.

Col

PS Got death info from your original post & checked ancestry but no luck

Firstly, please do not apologize, I appreciate your interest and all of your help, And BTW, we are all getting older!!

I will contact Brian for sure and will re-look at the sites you suggested. Yes, I do belong to Ancestry worldwide. I have a private tree; maybe access to it would have been an assistance!  I have found a few things on John, including his will but cannot go beyond him. I am wondering if the Campbells originally came from Scotland. He was a Linen Merchant.

My Devon Rex is calling, must see to her. thanks again, your help has been much appreciated, Marcia

Marcia,

If John was Presbyterian, had a Scottish surname like Campbell and was born in Co Antrim (as per 1911 census), then you are pretty safe in assuming his ancestors originated in Scotland. They probably settled in the area in the 1600s as part of the Plantation/Settlement of Ulster, though some did come to Ireland before that as gallowglass (mercenaries) for native Irish tribes. Their descendants tended to be RC though as they left Scotland pre-reformation.

Pay to view sites like rootsireland are a good place to start research but they do have their weaknesses. There are a lot of transcription errors and they often omit information. If you go to the GRONI site, you can view the original 1877 marriage certificate and you?ll get more information. For example John Campbell?s father was Thomas, a Carpenter. It also appears that John resided in Holywood, just outside Belfast. Ann Margaret Davies resided in Coleraine and was the daughter of Walker Davies, a businessman. The marriage was not performed in church but at Waterford Place, Coleraine, by special licence. (You needed a special licence in the Pres church if the marriage was not solemnized in church). So Waterford Place was probably the bride?s address. Irish marriage certificates do not contain mothers names so you won?t get that information, at least from that source. Tradition was to marry in the brides church, and so that may be the place to look for her baptism, and that of any siblings.

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn: I am  extremely grateful for the information. I am new to researching and find it daunting at times, especially my Irish roots which are vast! I have just received the Marriage Certificate and am now wondering if the people who signed at the bottom are the mothers as Walter Miller is one of the sons though there isn't an Eliza. Could this be?

Do you have any idea how to find the baptismal certificates for either John or Anna? I only have Anna's year of birth while I have John's exact date. Sorry I should check your link before I ask more questions.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help, Marcia

Hi Col: I am incorrect in saying the parents names weren't there, the mother's names weren't there unless they signed as witnesses! I relooked at the certificate and see I did miss some info, so thanks for making me do that , much appreciated, Marcia

Marcia,

Regarding the witnesses, they are A. Millar & Eliza J McKernan.  Neither shares the surname of bride or groom, so it seems unlikely to me that either was one of the mothers. (The mothers would surely be Campbell or Davies). As with many a marriage today, I?d expect the witnesses to be friends of the couple. In Ann?s case, a married sister could also be another possibility.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church. In this case they were married by the Rev R B Wylie, in Coleraine. No church is mentioned (because the marriage took place in a  private house) but I happen to know that Robert Beatty Wylie was the Minister at Coleraine 3^rd Presbyterian Church from 1871 to 1913, so those would be the records to investigate. That church today is known as Terrace Row Presbyterian church. There?s a picture of the Rev Wylie on the church website:

http://www.terracerow.org.uk

The church was established in 1796 but unfortunately the early records are lost. What survives is as follows:

3rd Coleraine (Terrace Row)?Baptisms, 1862-1939; marriages, 1845-1903; marriage notices, 1863-1951; communion roll, 1862-3.

Assuming that was where she was baptised, you are not going to find Ann?s baptism in those records, as it was obviously before the records begin. I?d say your best bet would be the 1862/63 Communion Roll, which may list Ann, her siblings and parents. That roll is not on-line anywhere, so far as I am aware. There?s a copy held in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast, either on microfilm MIC1P/101 or in paper format D1642. You can e-mail PRONI and see if they?ll look it up for you (for a fee). Otherwise you may need to get a researcher to do it for you.

With regard to John?s baptism, all we know about him appears to be that he was born somewhere in Co Antrim c 1845. Unless you can get additional clues, then I?d say there?s very little prospect of narrowing the search down. (I looked at the 1901 Irish census. There were 1090 people named John Campbell in it, of whom 156 were born in Co Antrim. That may give an idea of the size of the problem.)

I looked in the 1877 street directory for Coleraine (which is on-line on the PRONI site) and I note that there was a Mrs Davies, proprietress of offices, listed in Waterford Place, Coleraine. She was also listed in the 1870 directory, but not in the 1866. (No Davies entries in the street prior to 1870).

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/street_directories.htm

If Mrs Davies was listed rather than her husband, I?d suspect she was a widow by 1870.

Just 3 houses occupied in Waterford Place in the 1901 census. No-one named Davies. See:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Coleraine/Waterford_Place/

One other thought, Davies is obviously a name commonly found in Wales. I see in the 1901 & 1911 censuses that there was an Anna Margaret Davies staying in John Campbell?s household. She was described as his cousin and she was born in Wales. So perhaps John?s wife family originated in Wales too.

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn:

You have certainly given me more information than I had and a great many leads to follow. Thank you so much for that. I do know a fair bit about John as he left a bible, so I have his birth date 26 March 1845,  Coleraine, Londonderry. I know he left Coleraine in 1873. I have him in the 1901 & 1911 census which I was able to retreive looking for one of his daughters! I also found his will using his son's name. I also have Anna's will and her death date but birth is only the year. The reason I wondered if the Miller could be her Mom is that one son is Walter Miller. Didn't think about her having a married name! I told you I was a neophyte!! With Davies as a last name I did consider that  Anna's family was from Wales but as it is such a common name haven't tried to follow that link as of yet. Most of my names are common and most lived in Ireland for a period of time (Campbell, Patton, McArthur, Flemming, Gray, Dunfee- probably missing someone. Wish I could come over, maybe one of these days, I haven't been to Belfast in years and when I was tthere was not doing Genealogy.

thank you once again, I am indebted to you, Marcia

If John was born in Coleraine, I wonder why he put Co Antrim as his place of birth in both censuses? (Coleraine is in Co Derry). Odd that. But it does at least give you a place to search, if you ever get to PRONI. 

Hi Elwyn: Excellent point. I will go thorugh my notes to see where the Coleraine birth came into play and where I found his birth date! My step mother did some digging but died before I could talk to her about it . I have a limited amount of her research as most of her research is with her daughter who doesn't want to share it. Families!! thanks again, Marcia