Bridget Murphy Kirk

HI Kirk Murphy

Second question first, there are 12 records of a death in Ireland between those dates with 3 in Dundalk but I think the 2 in 1912 are the same, see http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ Most are in the general North East area as Kirk is a name found there mainly. You could get the certificate here at €4 but you have to send the money first but they will email reply, that is €4 per search see https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx 

For your first questin do you have any idea when the person was born or dates we could search to establish first marriage.

Upper Creggan parish is in the county of Louth but in the diocese of Armagh which is also a separate county but for church purposes is in Armagh, to add to the confusion Armagh County is now in Northern Ireland while Louth is in the Republic of Ireland but both are still in the diocese of Armagh.

Church registers are here but http://registers.nli.ie/ but you really need a date to search without tearing your hair out.

If the lady died as you say it was probably in the local papers and there may have been an inquest but I am not sure if you can search those or if they are available.

You could email here http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Library/Genealogy-Research-Sources/ or here http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Archives 

Also was Kik the first or second marriage as if it was the 2nd she was fairly old when she died if in 1903 and 2nd marriage after 3 children in 1903 at earliest. if she was 25 at 2nd marriage she was between 70 and 92 when she died. 

Regards

Pat

Hi Pat!

I do not have her birthdate unfortunately. I can tell you her children's names and baptism dates however:

1) Patrick Kirk was baptized August 24th 1859. Sponsers: Owen Kirk and Mary Do. (Ds.?), Upper Creggan. (primary document)

2)Joseph Kirk was baptized April 27th 1861. Sponsers Bryan Murphy and Ann Murphy, Upper Creggan. (Primary document)

3) John Kirk was baptized June 20th 1863.  Sponsers James Lucille (?) and Mary Foster, Upper Creggan. (primary document)

4) Owen Kirk was baptized April 6th 1867. Sponsers: Thomas Reel and Alice Murphy. Upper Creggan(I have primary document and secondary document certified by Peter Sheerin P.P. St. Peter's Church, Crossmaglen April 28th 1932.)

Thomas Kirk and Bridget Murphy were married October 6th 1858. Wittnesses were Patrick McCory (?) and Rose Rafferty, Upper Creggan. (Primary Document) (There is something about a robert rafferty crossed out next to name.)

Also the family tells me that they used to live near the silverbridge post office and newry armagh. Not sure about any of this. Patrick, Joseph, and Owen all alledgedly were merchant seaman on steamer ships, which may have been how they immigrated to U.S. around 1890-ish. In Draft Record, Patrick's son listed his father's birth place as Warrenpoint, County Down.... I'm not sure if this is accurate.

Hope this helps a bit, I really appreciate you taking the time!

Oh forgot to say... I always heard it was a first marriage but I'm not actually sure. Also one of their boys may have murdered a tax collector or some head official.... not sure which one of the boys, but it appears they were a fiesty lot. (:

Much Thanks from America!

Hi Again

Firstly I looked for both Bridget and Thomas Kirk in the Irish census of 1901 and 1911 which should indicate if she was still alive post 1903 but could not find a Bridget to fit but then this is often spelled slightly different so tried under Thomas Kirk and got about 60 plus hits for Ireland but as he married in 1858 he should be over 60 in 1901 which reduces the number aa lot but none of them were living with a Bridget or similiar, see http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ note this defaults to 1911 so select 1901. The UK census is still on line for those years if they moved to the UK. As some are post 1864 they should appear on the site I sent you earlier but in my own research people were not always registered for the civil authorities.

The story about the murdered tax collector should be well reported if true and the Irish Times is online and published since 1859 but you must subscribe but you can for a day or a week fairly cheaply. http://www.irishtimes.com/archive regional newspapers are not all onlne but there are some here again subscribe https://www.irishnewsarchive.com/ the Dundalk Democrat is there.

Silverbridge is near Creggan Lower in Armagh but only had a population of 112 in the last census but may have been bigger, for Northern Ireland the website is https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni Ireland divided in 1921 and up to that records are in both areas. 

The Dad could have been born in Warrenpoint but it is east of Newry and a small port, on that I was in the merchant navy myself many years ago.

There are some good websites for County Down but you appear to be on the Louth Armagh area, for Down see http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/ and http://countydown.x10.mx/html/index2.htm

and a site about Louth http://www.jbhall.freeservers.com/ 

What part of the USA are you in and it is bedtime here.

Regards

Pat

Washington State. (: Thanks so much! I will look into that!

Hi Pat,

I have broken through quite a few brick walls since I last wrote to you, thanks to your sources, however now I have hit some new ones. (:

Here's what I know now:

Bridget Murphy's first marriage was to a Thomas Hollywood in 1853 Armagh and Louth, Upper Creggan.

Bridget and Thomas had the following children:

1) Thomas Hollywood, Baptized 1857 in Upper Creggan and died on June 27th 1913 in Lurgan, Armagh, but the civil registration was in Castleblaynay, Crossmaglen on July 7th, 1913.

2) Mary Hollywood, Baptized 1855 in Upper Creggan and died on July 4th 1919 in Glassdrummend (sp?), but the civil registration was in Catleblayney, Crossmaglen on July 10th 1919.

This is where I have the following two brick walls:

1) Did Thomas Hollywood die around 1857 or did he leave Bridget? Bridget Murphy was able to marry Thomas Kirk in the Catholic Church in 1858, so from what I can see either Thomas Hollywood passed away or they must have gotten a very speedy annulment.....

2) Mary Hollywood's Death Civil Record mentioned a sister named, Bridget McEnteggert (sp?). This is awesome, however, I don't know if this Bridget is Thomas Hollywood's Daugther or Thomas Kirk's Daugther...

The other Brick Walls I'm running up against are the following:

1) I now know that Bridget Murphy, then Kirk, died the February 12th 1900 in Lurgan, Co. Armagh after 7 days of Bronchitis at 70yrs. old, but her Death Civil Record was filed in Castleblayney on March 10th 1900 by her son Thomas Hollywood. My Mom is wondering if she actually died after falling in the hearth, like we have always heard... Do you happen to know what newspaper would have documented this event, if it did actually happen, and what date they would most likely have reported it?

Thanks once again for all the help!

Mary

Oh I forgot think the Lurgan is short for Lurgancullenboy, but I could be wrong. (:

Hi Mary

I will look at this next week, I am busy at the moment with a backlog of work and other stuff. However since you first post the Irish Civil Records from 1864 for all came on line, free, (Protestant Marriages from 1845) see https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

Click on civil records and follow instructions, church records are only for Dublin and some other counties. If you can find a marriage record for the daughter it will give the fathers name and occupation.

Did you find out anymore about the possible murder.

Regards for now

Pat

Hi Pat!

No worries. (: Thanks for the website. I actually discovered that site late last year and it helped me prove the Hollywoods were the other family and where the Kirk's actually lived.

No, unfortunately, I haven't figured out anything else yet on the possible murder...... I did find a Kirk family in Mounthill, Armagh who got into quite a bit of trouble (Murder trial/ Petty Records galore)...... and has similar names as my Kirk family, but I can't tell if it's my Kirk family or another Kirk family. 

Here's one of the article's about the Mounthill, Armagh Criminal Kirk Family (If these Kirk's are related to us it would have to be siblings of Thomas Kirk):

http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/newsclippings/1851May9-SamuelCOU…

Also I attached some Petty Crime Records about the Mounthill Kirk Family. I'm not sure if this could be our Owen Kirk, since he would have been around 13yrs. old in 1880 and I'm not sure if he would have gotten arrested for being drunk at that age. (;

Thanks for all the help!

Mary

Forgot to say there appears to be two Thomas Kirk's in Mounthill inbetween 1850's til around 1890's.

Hi Mary

done a few searches on a subscription site and found no Thomas Hollywood died between 1848 and 1858 in Ireland, two died but as young children. However I found a Thomas Holliwood (note spelling) registered as dying in 1853 in Wirral, Cheshire. This I think could take in Liverpool a major port and at the time there would have been services from many ports in the Irish North East including Warrenpoint, Newry, Greenore, Dundalk, and Drogheda. 

I could see the register but there did not appear to be any further information on it. Civil registration started in 1837 in England and a cert may show more such as why he died and age plus who was there.

Will be back to this later as trying to check in little bits.  I am surprised at the number of Hollywoods there are in Ireland.

As regards the criminal Kirks (fairly minor stuff) until about 2008 we had a Government Minister here called Seamus (Gaelic version of James) Kirk from Dundalk, so things are looking up as time goes by.

Regards
Pat

Hi Mary

scratch the above as there was a Hollywood born in 1857, she did not wait long to remarry. Find link to 1901 census and I think 2 children of Bridget.  http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Creggan_Lower/L…

Also found Civil registration for Owen but crossed out as wrong date in Dundalk. No correct one found, also noted marriages for Bridget twice as you say but slight differences in date.

Can you email me at stpeters@irelandxo.com as I want to send some stuff and discuss off subscription site, the Thomas above is registerd as born to a Francis Hollywood and Bridget Murphy.

I would prefer to do it by email as we wait 24 hours for notifications etc.

Regards
Pat

Mary

I searched for numerous Hollywood stuff, very interesting stuff, quiet a few married other Hollywoods. Anyway I went over your finds and concetrated on Bridget McEnteggert, found no  death registered  (oddly no marriage either but maybe did not look in correct places). 

What I did locate was a will for a Bridget McEnteggart grant of will 20th October 1920. Now I see a Mary McEnteggart died in Dundalk found lying in a pond, coroner notified. This is maybe similiar to your found in a heart story. The will thing is just a cover note, saying wife of a publican deceased, Philipstown Louth, The will is however granted in Armagh and also says farmer which is on the certificate. It may be she was Mary Bridget and was called Bridget after the mother but used Mary as her legal name. My wife is in this boat.

Now to look for a marriage of a Hollywood to a Peter McEnteggart.

Regards
Pat

Me again

the will cover is in the National Archives and link here http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/search/cwa/details.jsp?id=…

Scroll down a bit on left.

Pat

Mary

I found the Bridget of the will and I her age is not correct, she would be born circa 1870 so long after she became a Kirk unless a half sister. I also found the dead Mary who cannot be Bridget, she lived in a place called Ballinafuill, Louth and is also not correct. I have searched all McEnteggart and McEntaggert in the census of 1901 and 1911, those two spelling, also came across a Hollywood marrying a Teggert no Mc. 

I will come back to this on Tuesday if I do not get an email from you.

Regards
Pat

Mary

still looking and noted on the Registers NLI site that there are no death registers at all for Creggan Upper, indicating there are none whether they went missing or were not recorded. I also looked at Roots Ireland a subscription site but you can do general searchs free, also no Hollywood deaths recorded for Armagh; Down; Louth or Monaghan. From this I think that Thomas Hollywood died shortly before or after the birth of the child born last as she married about 18 months later. His death is not recorded, an annulment would rarely be given especially if there were children.

The papers that may have carried the story that are searchable on Irish Newspaper Archives (subscription site) would be primarily the Dundalk Democrat; Freemans Journal; Anglo Celt. The Louth County Archives might have something, 

https://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Archives/ other counties would have similiar. The reason the death would be registered is Castleblaney is there is certain places designated to be centres, usually a larger town, sometimes the person registering would do it in the place they were nearest at the time, if the doctor was present they might do it, the other places would be Dundalk, Newry or Armagh. 

I have tried to locate Bridget McEnteggert marriage and on the census to no avail as yet, tried 2 different spellings. 

Here are some websites not directly relevent, Creggan Upper is mainly in Armagh but a small piece is in County Louth and borders County Down and on at least one of them there is a lot of Hollywoods and some Kirks. Also here is a site for Irish seamen who got ID Cards. In first World War there was conscription but not I think if Ireland, seamen were not subject to conscription and were given an ID card something like a passport to show they were exempt, even got one myself in the 1960s See lots of Hollywoods http://www.irishmariners.ie/searchdatabase.php

Two sites for Down, 2nd one around Newry http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/ and

http://countydown.x10.mx/

Regards for now

Pat

Hi Pat,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. Thank you for all the research you did! I just sent you an email at the eail address you provided.

Thanks!

Mary