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Hi. My name is Peter Clifford and I was born in 1958 in Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, England, but I have connections with Lislee, Co. Cork. 

When I researched my family tree some years ago, however, I discovered that I have ancestors who settled in Cheltenham in the 1850s and who originated from Lislee. Daniel Grace and his wife Julia Hooper were married  in Lislee Catholic church in 1833 and my great-great-grandfather Michael Grace was baptised there in 1838. The baptism records suggest that they lived in Ballymacshoneen, and there are certainly Graces recorded in Griffith's in that townland. Sometime between 1851 and 1857, James and Julia Grace and their children appear to have left Ireland and moved to Cheltenham. The first record of the Graces in Cheltenham that I have found is the marriage of James and Julia's eldest son James to Johanna McCarthy at St Gregory's Catholic church in Cheltenham on 31 Oct 1857.

Having now retired, I am doing an M.A. by Research with the University of Gloucestershire, and have chosen as my research topic "The Irish in Cheltenham, 1801-1861". I'm wondering if anyone on here can help me with my current project?

It is well known that thousands of Irish people come to Cheltenham every year for the horse racing, but what is less well known is that quite a sizeable number of Irish people settled in Cheltenham during the 19th century. That's not particularly unusual, but what is pretty much unique is that the Irish population of Cheltenham was fairly evenly split between a well-to-do Irish-born Protestant group (many of whom had been officers in he British Army or the East India Company's armed forces, or colonial administrators) and a working-class Catholic community. It's this latter group that I'm most interested in. 

One thing that is clear from my research so far is that a large proportion of the working-class Irish people who came to Cheltenham originated in County Cork. What is also emerging is that a surprising number of them were from Lislee, or other nearby places like Clonakilty. I would love to understand better what factors may have influenced these people to leave Ireland when they did (the Great Famine will, of course, have been one of them, but the timing - mid-1850s rather than late-1840s - seems peculiar if that were the main one). Also, what on earth made so many people from the one small area come to Cheltenham, which was not exactly an obvious place to find employment?

One thing I have learned, and which I am hoping somebody on here might help me understand better, is that Ballymacshoneen and several other pieces of land owned by one Robert Tresilian of Bandon (who seems possibly to have emigrated to Australia some 13 years earlier) were sold, under the terms of the Incumbered Estates Act, in 1853. Ballymacshoneen was purchased by one John Longfield, about whom I currently know nothing (work in progress..). I am wondering if it's possible there was a wave of tenant evictions following the sale, and whether this could have a bearing on the arrival of people from Lislee in Cheltenham in the following years? That still begs the question why they came here, of course, but I suspect some form of "chain migration" was at play, ie one person made the move, then others followed suit later to join up with people they'd known back home previously.

If anyone is able to give me any local historical insights into all of this, that would be fantastic. If nothing else, I'm hoping somebody might be able to suggest books to read or other groups to contact?

Many thanks for any help you can offer.

Pete
 

Pete Clifford

Friday 5th May 2023, 09:26AM

Message Board Replies

  • Pete, I have been asked to look over the unanswered queries and am giving you a quick reply, as you mention family often followed family, on other occassions local parish priests may be aware that there was work or land in an area but that appears to be unlikely as I am sure there were plenty to farm there at the time. It struck me maybe the landlord owned estates in both areas and transferred or assisted tenants to leave. It is not unusual to find migrants from one area to another, but not to England, even in the late 1800s there was migration from an area of Westmeath to Argentina etc

    I would first contact the Cork library to see if they had and information, also some local history gorups, there are a lot of them now and here is a list of some affiliated ones https://localhistory.ie/all-members-of-federation-of-local-history-soci…;

    I do not live locally to Cork but met a neighbour today from Cork who tells me that the area was well known for English residents, indeed it is thought the town of Bandon had links to the Mayflower, same names recur there, I believe John Bunyan who wrote Pilgrims Progress spent time in East Cork (you are in West Cork)

    Historically the Baltimore area apparently had a lot of herring fishing and salting for export, interestingly also the coastal area there was 2nd only to the Barbery Coast for pirating in the late 1500s I think, have a book on it somewhere, also another book tell of the sack of Baltimore in the distant past by raiders from what is now Algeria and taking the population as slaves. Just a bit of background colour. 

    From researching my own family I know a lot of Irish in the 1850s went to Stockport and I see there were anti Irish riots there in the 1850s I think. In some areas also the famine went on to 1852, always taught it was 1845 to 1848, however recent publications say that near the coast people were able to access fish but those inland appear not to have been aware of this, only 15 miles away etc.

    There is a voluntary project on the Registry of Deeds and I see a few Graces in Cork in the early 1800s, no assistance in why they left mind you. https://irishdeedsindex.net/index.php 

    There are a number of private groups on Facebook dealing with area history and you might strike lucky there, apply to join and ususally be accepted.

    Let me know if you think there is anything I may be able to assist with but I live about 200 miles from that part of Cork but did live in Cork in the past.

    Good Luck

    Pat

     

    Pat O Holloran, IrelandXO Volunteer

    Wednesday 6th Dec 2023, 12:56AM
  • Many thanks Pat. Lots to ponder there. Pete.

    Pete Clifford

    Wednesday 6th Dec 2023, 09:33PM

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