Phel(e)ans from Kilmacow

Donna:

Welcome back to Ireland Reaching Out!

The subscription site Roots Ireland has baptismal records for Kilmacow RC parish starting sometime in 1836. They did have a Richard Phelan baptismal record in Kilmacow in 1836 and another in 1839. See below. I searched in Kilmacow for marriage records for a James Pheland and Bridget Walsh (parents of the 1836 Richard) in Kilmacow and the only record they had was back in 1811 which may be a different couple. I was unable to find an Alice Phelan marriage to a Murphy in Co. Kilkenny around 1850. Since Alice and Bridget were born before 1836, their baptismal records are not available. There were no other siblings born after 1836 on Roots.

Have you attempted to look for death records for any of the Phelans which might have the parents names?

Roger McDonnell

Name:Richard PhelanDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:29-Mar-1836Address:KilaspiParish/District:KILMACOWGender:MaleCountyCo. Kilkenny
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:James PhelanMother:Bridget WalshOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Richard Walsh Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Mary Macgrath 

Name:Richard PhelanDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:28-Jan-1839Address:AudsrockParish/District:KILMACOWGender:MaleCountyCo. Kilkenny
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Richard PhelanMother:Bridget BallOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Thomas Ball Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Mary Ball 

Date of Marriage:26-Feb-1811
Parish / District:KILMACOW
County:Co. Kilkenny

Husband  JamesPhelan  Address Garryduff
Wife BridgetWalshAddress:Garryduff

Roman Catholic

Roger, thanks so much for taking this on and helping me.. 

I obtained the following from NYS:

for Alice - Father and Mother's Name and Birthplace are blank.  (hence, my problem....lol)

for Richard - Name of Father: James Phalen (spelled that way), Birthplace: Ireland

                     Maiden Name of Mother: I thought this said Mary (i.e. first name) but I guess it could be Macy?  that doesn't jive with what you found....

for Bridget - I haven't been able to obtain a death record yet; the date of death is too early for NYS records, and I've been unsuccessful in obtaining any information from the Catholic church which runs the cemetery where all these folks are buried.  I can't help but think the church records would answer many of my questions about relationships.   I guess I can go to the local town office, but I don't even know if she died there; just that she's buried there.

Here's another possible clue:  Richard  Phelan had "cousins" from Kilmacow, last name Gaule - at least four of the sons became priests and came over to Iowa (they were kind of a sensation from what I read in the newspapers). One of them was Edward Gaule - he was born in Kilmacow in June 24 1881.  I know he had a brother Thomas, and a brother Patrick.  I think maybe their mother's name was Margaret Phelan.  Wondering if she might be a sibling to the Phelans here?  

Again, thanks for your help.  I'm thinking you must have been doing this a long time!

Donna

Donna:

I've have been volunteering for Ireland Reaching Out for over five years.

I would search the free site www.irishgenealogy.ie  for Gaul or Gault civil birth records which will probably show some Phelan sponsors. Kilmacow parish is within the Waterford registration district.

Roger

Roger - ok will do.  Waterford registration district within Kilkenny, not to be confused with Waterford County, right? Thanks again.  Donna

The Waterford registration district covers some parishes in Co. Kilkenny and some parishes in Co. Waterford.

Hello.  I'm afraid I can't help with the enquiry. Please excuse me butting in.  I'm helping someone with Kilkenny research. I'm trying to familiarise myself with the county and am interested to learn that Waterford registration district includes some Kilkenny parishes.

Roger, I'm puzzled by your reply 8th July when you advise searching civil birth records "which will probably show some Phelan sponsors". I thought sponsors' names were  normally in baptism registers. Having said that, one of my great-grandfathers registered the birth of a niece or nephew in the first year of civil registration. He stated his qualification as informant to be "sponsor". Was this a common occurrence in early years of birth registrations? I suppose the child's father may have been working away, or my GGF was the only relative going into town that week.

Maggie:

I was incorrect. Civil marriage records have witneses but civil birth records do not show the sponsors/informants. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Donna: Only baptismal records have the sponsors/informants.

Roger

Hello, Roger.

Civil birth registers show informants. R.C.baptisms show sponsors' names. Birth registration of my GGF's God-child was an exception then, my GGF being both sponsor at baptism and informant on the birth registration. Griffiths' valuation show my GGF and his brother-in-law as tenants of the same plots of land. My theory of the child's father having gone to work away and my GGF registering the child when he visited town for market or other business is a likely one.  At first I thought that the families had misunderstood the birth registration process. I imagined GGF and GGM (the Godmother) presenting themselves at the registration office with their baby nephew.

My GGF's youngest child was born pre civil registration, so the nephew's birth was the only time GGF featured in birth registrations.    

Most  birth registrations I've seen had father or mother as informant.  If the informant wasn't a parent their qualification was usually "present at birth", so possibly a relative, neighbour, friend or midwife ( in some cases all 4 in one woman).