Patton family from Down (possibly Newtownards)

Deb,

Colville Patton’s marriage was registered in Newtownards on 4.2.1847. His bride’s name is indexed as Elizabeth Robb, rather than Ross. Not sure if that’s a transcription mistake. You’ll need to look at the certificate and decide from that. Both are fairly common Scottish names found in that area, so either could be correct.

You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which should be on the certificate (unless it was a Registry Office marriage). That church may be the place to look for her baptism and that of any siblings.

If you post a copy of the certificate here, or a transcription of all the relevant details, I’ll try and help you locate where the families lived and what other records might help you.

Thanks so much for your reply Elwyn!

I registered with GRONI and started an account.

When I tried to get the certificate they asked for a registration district.  Newtownards was not an option.

I looked up registration districts and it appears this should be the registration district.  Tried Down just in case.

It replied no results.

Any suggestions?

Deb

Deb,

The Registration District is optional. You don’t need it unless it’s a very common name. They have Newtownards under Ards for marriages (they use Newtownards for deaths & births so not sure why they have done that. It’s the same place anyway).

Just search under Elizabeth Robb. It’s the only 1 anywhere in Northern Ireland in 1847.

Thanks - I have ordered the full copy, but this is an image.

I am having difficulty identifying the name of the place of residence for Colville Patton.

I believe it says his father George's profession is farmer.

Any help interpreting the Bally???? names is appreciated

Deb

Deb,

I am fairly sure that the townland was Ballyskeagh. That’s divided into Higher & Lower. Looking the tithe applotment records for the parish in 1833 I see George Patton listed there, as well as various Robbs. See:

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/down/tithe-applotment-books/newtownards-parish.php#.WmY5gBR2ug0

Looking at Griffiths Valuation of the 2 townlands in 1863, there’s no George Patton so I would say he had died by that time. There are 4 different Alexander Robbs all farming there plus a William Robb. Those farms today are on Andersons Hill and the Crawfordsburn Rd, just outside Bangor.

I also noted a William Colvill with land in both townlands. He lived in Ballyskeagh Higher (plot 19) but also had a little land in Lower. It’s a fairly unusual surname and I wondered whether Colvill Patton might be named after that family. Incidentally Colville appears to have married the girl next door. The two families were obviously very near to each other.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

There was 1 Robb family still there in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Newtownards/Ballyskeigh_Low/1258632/

Family was Presbyterian (so of Scottish origins, probably in the 1600s).

Appreciate your help Elwyn!

If I were to look for parish records for the early 1800's or before for Ballyskeagh - would I look in Newtownards or would there be a local parish church?

Wanting to make the most of my visit in May and do any research possible.

Deb

Deb,

Your Pattons were Presbyterians, at least according to the 1901 census. In Ireland Presbyterians don’t use the parish system. Which church a Presbyterian attends is dictated by personal preference rather than by where you live (which is the general system for the Church of Ireland and the Roman Catholic church). In your case, it isn’t clear which church your family attended.  Colville & Elizabeth married in Newtownards 1st Presbyterian Church. However tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, so Colville may have attended some other church in the area.

With the area around Newtownards being so heavily settled by Scots in the 1600s, there are quite a few Presbyterian churches to choose from. (The Scots brought Presbyterianism to Ireland). Here’s a summary of the main churches in the Newtownards area, together with details of what records they have:

Non Subscribing Presbyterian. Newtownards

Baptisms, 1827-1978; marriages, 1827-1919; deaths,

1898-1923; minutes, 1888-1923; history of the

congregation, c.1638-c.1919.

Ballyblack Presbyterian

Baptisms, 1821-1948; marriages, 1820-1915; deaths,

1821-52; communicants’ roll book, 1869-89; session

minutes, 1821-43; transfer certificates, 1824-8; census,

1821-39;

1st Newtownards

Marriages, 1845-1909; marriage notice books, 1879-

1906.

Index to baptisms, 1831-1921, and marriages, 1833-1921;

2nd Newtownards

Baptisms, 1832-1940; marriages, 1833-42; marriage

notice books, 1879-1906; communion roll, 1876-1929.

4th Newtownards

Baptisms, 1854-1906; marriages, 1855-1905.

Greenwell Street, Newtownards

Baptisms, 1866-99 and 1946; marriages, 1870-1903;

marriage notice books, 1879-1906; index to marriages,

1870-1936; list of members, c.1920;

Regent Street, Newtownards

Baptisms, 1835-1961; marriages, 1835-1927; burials,

1892-1901.

In most cases, the originals of these records will be held by the Minister. You would need to make an appointment, which would be quite time consuming. However there are copies of all the above records in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast where you can see them without an appointment. The only exception is Newtownards 1st baptisms which PRONI don’t have (though they do have an index to the baptisms). You have to contact the Minister for access to the actual baptism records. If intending to do so, contact him/her well in advance as plenty of notice is helpful.

You may note that there are no records in that area for the 1600s or 1700s, so your research may fizzle out at what in Ireland we call the 1800 barrier. It’s common to run out of sources at that point. You may be able to link up with families in Scotland via DNA testing but probably not through paper records as they don’t exist, either in Ireland or Scotland. Some 100,000 Scots settled in Ireland in the 1600s, representing something like 10% of the entire Scottish population. However there are no comprehensive records of who they were either in Scotland or Ireland.

In addition to the information above, I would add that your ancestors lived quite close to some other Presbyterian churches in the area. If you don’t find them in the Newtownards records, you might need to widen your search to Bangor, Crawfordsburn, Dundonald and Holywood, all of which are within a couple of miles of where they lived.  The PRONI staff will guide you how to find those records.

I did have a look in the Muster Rolls for Co. Down c 1630, and there were 3 Patton households there then, all headed by men named John Patton, (all living on the Clandeboye Estate which included Ballyskeagh). So there were Pattons living in the general area then. A lot of Scots settled in Co Down in the early 1600s from Ayrshire, as part of the Hamilton & Montgomery Settlement of Ireland. Perhaps your ancestors were part of that arrival? Background information here:

https://ulsterscot.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/scottish-beginnings-the-hamilton-and-montgomery-settlement-1606/

So unless you happen to know which church your family attended, I’d be inclined to go to PRONI and search all the records there. You’ll find that much easier than ringing up a dozen or more churches and going there. If going to PRONI take your passport to get your readers ticket (takes 2 minutes). I would also suggest you leave a free day in your itinerary to use for exploring any leads you get. I am continually surprised by the number of overseas visitors who turn up at PRONI on the penultimate day of their holiday, make a genealogical discovery, and then have no time to explore it.

If in PRONI, you may want to search the e-catalogue for papers relating to Ballyskeagh. The Marquess of Londonderry estate papers (D654) contain plenty of references to the townland. I’ll leave it to you to go through them to see if any relate to your family.