O'Malley, Lally, Walshes of Mayo.

Chrissy:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I located two civil birth records for siblings of Anna. The first in 1869 was for a Bridget Walsh. She would be the Delia in your message. The second in 1871 was for John. Townlands are mentioned on both records but I'm having difficulty finding them in the official townland records. With the 1869 birth for Bridget, I would think that James Walsh and Mary Lally were born before 1854 and 1856. I was unable to locate a marrriage record. The Kilmeena RC records start in 1858 but I've not been able to locate a record. I did not find a birth record for Anna and I would agree that the family likely left the area some time after 1871 and went to England.

I don't have a good explanation for "half-parish". Maybe someone else will comment. 

Let me know if you have any questions.

Roger McDonnell

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Roger,

Thanks. This is definitely them. John's information in particular makes it very clear. My grandmother was the first generation born in the states and she pronounced that her family was from "Sha-la-gah"... She passed away when I was only two, so then I of course have to hear the pronunciation from my father's memory and it has been quite a game of telephone in our research. To see this town spelt out on John's document was really awesome and I very much thank you. I am starting to believe that Sloger, Mayo might be the correct spelling.

These documents also confirm that James and Mary met and wed in Ireland, not England. I was beginning to wonder.

*If anyone else reading this is able to decode the town names based on their understanding of the geography or pronunciation, that would be wonderful. I will keep searching for similarities in the meantime.

Roger, truly thank you! As a Walsh decendent I don't often get many documents that I can feel absolute certain about. There are just so many of them. I really appreciate your help. All the best!

Chrissy:

Glad I could help you. I'm wondering if the townland was Slaugar in Kilmeena civil parish. Go to Google Maps and enter the name and you will see the location north of Westport.

Roger

According to logainm.ie, Slaugar is the anglicized form of the Irish placename Slogar.  According to abair.ie, the Conamara dialect pronunciation of that word would be close to "Sluh-gurr", which is a more or less standard propnunciation..  However, the genitive form (as in an expression where one said something was "of Slogar") is Shlogair, which would be close to "Hluh-gur".  The beginning of Shlogair could easily be misheard by an English speaker as having an "sh" sound, and the ending in the genitive is a kind of "r" sound not found in English, which might be heard by a non-Irish speaker as something close to what your family recalled.

Thank you, Roger and Kevin!!! 

I very much believe that Slaugar (Slogar) is the place. It has taken a number of years to narrow that down, but it makes the most sense with pronunciation and because I know that our family bible says that Mary Lally was born in Kilmeena as well. Thank you so much for your detail on this. I really appreciate it and your clarity is really helping me from across the ocean here become more clear on the geography.

Not to push my luck, but the next two towns that I am researching are "Brocca", Mayo according to an old loan agreement with a Ulick Lally. I'm thinking this might be "Brockagh"? I am not finding much of about the town and am wondering if this because it might possibly be more rural and poor? Also "Derrylogian or Deryhulian" as a township in Newport<-- Roger, this is what I getting from the handwriting in your first document of Bridget Walsh's birth. Someone else, underneath the data on the Walshes wrote a similar town name, but also their spelling is still unclear. 

I am grateful and will continue the search as well. All the best!

Chrissy

Chrissy:

There is a Brockagh townland in Kilmaclasser civil parish just to the east of Kilmeena parish likely that is your Broackagh.

The townland in the 1869 record looks like Derryhuldrin but there is no townland with that spelling. The best possibility is Derryhillagh in Burrishoole civil parish just to the north of Kilmeena parish. I have to admit that I am shaky on that one.

Roger

At this url, you can see lists of the parishes, townlands, and other divisions in County Mayo:  https://www.townlands.ie/mayo

You can click on most of the names and be taken to a more specific page about that place.  Here, as an example, is the url for the page about Brockagh (in irish, An Bhrocach):  https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/burrishoole/kilmaclasser/kilmaclasser/bro…

At each individual page, there is also usually a link to click on to go to the logainm page about the same place, which has additional info.  Here, for example, is the url for the page about Brockagh:   https://www.logainm.ie/en/37217

If you want to hear the pronunciation of a given name (or any word or phrase in Irish), go to this url:

http://www.abair.tcd.ie/?lang=eng&page=synthesis&synth=gd&view=listen&s…

If you somehow arrive at the Irish-language version of the page, you can switch to English at the top of the page.

For Mayo, first select "Connemara" in the line above the big blank box.  You can select "Connemara HTS" instead, but for reasons better explained in the pull-down menus at the site, the former is better for getting normal speech.  Then, you insert your word or phrase in the box, and click on "synthesize".  After a short delay, you'll hear the word pronounced as someone in Connemara would pronounce it today.  Note that, in Mayo, some areas to the north and east originally had a dialect which was a bit more like the western Ulster dialect, and what abair.ie gives you is the dialect now spoken in western Mayo, but that's the area you want anyway.  Note also that there can be sub-dialects with variaiotns in pronunciation, but for place names the differences are not usually very significant.

Roger,

I think I found the town listed as James Walshes place of origin... Could it be Derryculdrim? Newport West? I saw this spelt Derrycooldrim more often online but I can't seem to locate it officially on any map. People seem to speak about it on various sites as if it is pretty well-known in the Newport area. Just wondering if you knew anything about this place.

Thanks!

Shoot, I guess there is another close option... Derrylahan, Mayo. I'll keep looking. James Walsh is such a common name I thought it would really help narrow down his family. Thanks!

Chrissy:

Derrycooldrim is a townland in Burrishoole civil parish and is located northwest of Newport. There are three Derrylahan townlands in Co. Mayo but none close to Newport. There are five townlands in Burrishoole which start with Derryloughan (Beg, More, East, North and South). These townlands are closer to Newport.

Roger

Hi, My father is from Rostoohy, Kilmeena, and I have been there 3 times, and heard people refer to the "half-parish" also.  

I found this reference in a book about the famine by Cathal Poirteir:

"Famine Echoes – Folk Memories of the Great Irish Famine: An Oral History of Ireland’s Greatest Tragedy"

(Page 298, from oral account of Martin Manning, born 1875, Carrowholly, Kilmeena, Westport, Mayo)

“The whole parish of Kilmeena was, it may be said, cleared of its peasantry.  The O’Donels of Newport and and Brownes [Sligo] of Westport were the landlords…. In the half-parish of Kilmeena-Kilmclasser things were no better. Lord Lucan was landlord and he cleared with a vengeance.”

You can look up records of Kilmaclasser here:

https://www.johngrenham.com/c_parish/c_parish_main.php?civilparishid=1771&civilparish=Kilmaclasser&county=Mayo

I do see Walsh in there.

Good luck

TomNChi,

Thank you for taking the time to clarify what "half-parish" meant. You certainly gave me a narrow focus to search. I really appreciate you taking the time to reach out. Kilmaclasser was not on my radar. I can't thank you enough.

Chrissy Ellerson

ChrissyEllerson,

I am glad to be of help. I learned a few things , such that "Kil" means "church" in Gaelic, and Kilmeena is named after Saint "Meena" (Miodhna)

There is a great article about the history of Kilmeena in this book by the Westport Historical Society.

http://www.westportheritage.com/volumes/volume5-web.pdf

A few stories: 

How the Half-Parish came to be(page 5) 

2 Saints, Miodhna,  and Mac Glaise, agreed to divide up the district for their parishes, with Miodhna starting at the west edge, and Mac Glaise to the east. Each was to move forward on their knees, and where they met was to be the dividing line. Well, Miodhna was a bit of a rogue, so he got up and ran, and covered much more ground. 

Mac Glaise  saw what Miodhna was doing, and picked up a stone to hit him in the head. But the rock stuck to to his hand, and he fell to his knees, marking the boundary spot. Today in Roe Kilmeena, you can see the prints of the 2 knees and the hand of Saith Mac Glaise, indicating the boundary between the much larger parish of Kilmeena, and the "half-parish" of Kilmaclasser.

There are a lot more in that Westport heritage book, and a few I heard from my family, and in the pubs, too.

I hope you can visit. I know people with no real ties or heritage who have had a great time and welcomed like family. So, you would be for sure.

Tom Nolan

Very interesting!

I would certainly love to visit and am glad to narrow the destination with your help. Wow. I have tried to narrow the location down for over 15 years. It's a great feeling. Thanks again!

After searching Kilmaclasser, I also discovered that the village of Fahy is considered "the half parish of Kilmeena"? I don't know if it is part of Kilmaclasser but from the map it seems to be right next to it.

All the best,

Chrissy Ellerson