Hello, I have been researching my Great Grandmothers family and I have been able to find some information but am looking for some more and hopefully more details. My Great Grandmother is Rose Torley/Turley whos is the daughter of Michael and Rose Torley(Turley) from Newry, Down. I have been able to locate birth certificates for her and some of her sibilings. I have also been able to locate Michael and Rose in the 1901 and 1911 Census only- none prior to that period.
Marriage- Michael Torley and Rose McAteer ( 12/31/1863) Newry, Ireland Dromore (Witness: Patrick and Mary McAteer) ** I am looking to find out if what church they were married in - the document I found does not list the name of the church. Also, have not been able to trace any parents or sibilings for Michael or Rose or if they are originally from Newry.
Children: On 1911 census its listed that Rose had 9 children and 5 were surviving- I have found records for following children- any insight or where to search for the others would be appreciated. Also, residence on most is listed as (90?) Church Street on birth certifictes and place of birth as Pound Street. What is reason she would have had the children at a different location? Could it be a realatives house ?
Also, from the Census of 1901 and 1911 can you tell me what the house would have been like that they lived in on church street? I am thinking after looking at census it would have been somewhat like a row house building or large warehouse with rooms for each family? Does this building still exist today?
John (1/4/1866)
Catherine (4/12/1870) -Catherine married a James Campbell(1891) from newry also- had two children Margaret and James and on 1901 census Catherine is a widow and her and children are living on Church street with Rose and Michael -on 1911 Census Catherine has since passed away and I am assuming the children stayed with Rose and Michael. I have found records which I believe show Margaret and James came to US and went back to Ireland and US serveral times. There is a indication James was a engineer is it possible he worked for one of the immigration ships which is why he traveled back and forth to US? How would I begin to find out if this is the case?
Rose (my great-grandmother 4/12/1872) Rose immigrated to America I believe in 1890 but I do not know if she had a sibling already there I was not able to locate any immigration papers or any other clues. She married David Roach from Ware, Massachusettes and on census she has listed her immigration year as 1890.
Alice (8/5/1875) - Alice also immigrated to US I found her papers that indicate she was going to stay with her sister Rose in Ware Ma. She settled in South Boston, Massachusettes.
Thomas (12/30/1879)
On the Census a son (Michael) age 32 is also listed as living on Church street with Rose and Micheal but I cant find any birthcertificae and is listed as unmarried.
Prior to 1911 Census Michaels occupation was listed as Labor on birth certificates on 1911 it is listed as Cattle Dealer- I am assuming he worked for someone because there is no indication he owned cattle or a farm and I believe they were farily poor.
I am coming to Ireland in July and I would very much love to visit Newry and am looking for some guidance on where to go and what to see in relation to my ancestors and the time period. I would like to be able to visit the church my grand mother was baptised in and I am looking to find my Great, Great Grandparents death records and burial place for Rose and Michael. I am not sure if they are buried in Newry. Any kind of connection would be very much apprecited. Thank you so much! Ann
Ann
Tuesday 28th Jan 2020, 02:13AMMessage Board Replies
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Ann,
This is your family in Church St, Newry in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Newry_North_Urban/Church_Street/1247063/
Michael was a Cattle Dealer in 1901 and a farmer in 1911:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newry_North_Urban/Church_Street/255847/
He wouldn’t have been farming in the middle of a town so he presumably had some land outside Newry somewhere.
If you look at the building return for both censuses, it tells you that the house had walls made of brick, stone or concrete, a roof made of slate, iron or tile and in 1901 they had 3 rooms (4 in 1911), the property had 1 window at the front, and was rated as 3rd class. So a small property, single story I suspect. The postal address appears to have been 90 Pound St, going by the additional pages on the 1911 census. (House numbers in the censuses usually represented the enumerator’s private numbering system and did not necessarily indicate any postal address, though sometimes in towns they did use the postal address).
I found the following 6 children:
John born 4th Jan 1866 at Ballynacraig (A rural townland outside Newry)
Catherine born 13th April 1870 at Pound St, Newry
Rose 12th April 1872 Pound St
Alice 5th August 1875 Pound St
Martha 5th December 1877 Pound St
Thomas 30th December 1879 Pound St. Died 15th Sept 1880 9 Pound St.
In all of the births except Thomas’s the parents were living at the place where the child was born. In Thomas’s case he was born in Pound St, but his parents had moved to reside at 90 Church St.
The other 3 children mentioned in the 1911 census may have been stillbirths which were not required to be registered at that period. You mention a Michael aged 32 on the census whose birth you can’t find. I don’t see him. I see a John aged 32 (labourer in a quarry). His birth is in the records.
Catherine who was a widow in 1901 had not died by 1911. Instead she had re-married James Curran, a butcher. This is her in 1911 living at 30 Pound St (as per additional pages):
Michael Torley died 3rd June 1916 at 64 Church St. His daughter Kate Curran was the informant. Rose died 11th Feb 1921 at 11 Mount Pleasant, Newry. Daughter Kate was again the informant. She lived at the same address. I don’t know where the couple are likely to have married or be buried. Possibly the parish office may have some ideas for that. There’s no requirement in Ireland to record where someone is buried and occasionally it can be difficult finding out, especially if there’s no gravestone.
When James Campbell married Catherine Turley on 23rd July 1891, they married in Newry chapel. His occupation then was a labourer. They had twins Margaret and John born 17 June 1892. Then James 12th Aug 1893. John was a butcher with his stepfather, in 1911.
Finding out if James Campbell jnr became a sailor may be tricky because it’s such a common name. I do see merchant navy records for a James Campbell born around 1895 who served on the Tiger, a Glasgow registered coastal vessel that sailed between Scotland, Ireland and England. Can’t say if it’s him or not though.
Pound St, Newry still exists as does Church St. One is an extension of the other. I don’t know if the properties your family lived in are still there or not. There has been quite a bit of development in Newry over the years and I wouldn’t like to say.
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Tuesday 28th Jan 2020, 04:16AM -
A small extra piece of information to add to the above post, Michael left a will. His daughter Kate was the executor of his estate. The will itself is not on-line but should be in PRONI in Belfast. You can view it there free during your visit or PRONI will copy it for you for a fee and send it to you. Here’s the abstract (brief summary):
Probate of the Will of Michael Turley late of Church Street Newry County Down Dealer who died 3 June 1916 granted at Belfast to Kate Curran Married Woman
Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Tuesday 28th Jan 2020, 03:13PM -
Thank you very much! I apprecaite it- Ann
Ann
Tuesday 28th Jan 2020, 07:19PM