Michael J. Toomey 1869-1870 and Mary Ann Murphy 1869-1871 both from County Cork

 

 

At rootsireland.ie, we found three baptisms for children of John Twomey and Margaret Cronin of Ballyvourney parish. Michael was not listed.

 

Name:   Honora Twomey                            

Baptism:              01-Sep-1855

Parish:   BALLYVOURNEY

Gender: Female 

County  Co. Cork

Denomination:   Roman Catholic

Father:  John Twomey   

Mother:               Margaret Cronin

Occupation:                                    

Sponsor 1 /

Informant 1:       Richard Cronin

Sponsor 2 /

Informant 2:       Mary Finnigan

DAY INFERRED

 

 

Ellen Twomey   

Baptism               03-Apr-1862

Parish/District:   BALLYVOURNEY

County  Co. Cork

Denomination:   Roman Catholic

Father:  John Twomey   

Mother:               Margaret Cronin

Occupation:                                     

Sponsor 1 /

Informant 1:       John Cronin

Sponsor 2 /

Informant 2:       Margaret Collins

 

Julia Twomey    

Birth:     10-Nov-1872                   

Baptism:              11-Nov-1872

Address:              Ballyvourney    

Parish/District:   BALLYVOURNEY

Gender: Female 

County  Co. Cork

Denomination:   Roman Catholic

Father:  John Twomey   

Mother:               Margaret Cronin

Occupation:                                     

Sponsor 1 /

Informant 1:       Jeremiah Crowley

Sponsor 2 /

Informant 2:       Margaret Collins

Attached Files

Toomeydm,

I found Michael's birth record in Ireland, Select Births and Baptisms on Ancestry as well as in the Casey Collection Indexes which is attached. His birth was 1 Apr 1866...the Casey record has "Gurtirahilly" - Gortyrahilly is a townland in Ballyvourney. The other record has his birth in the townland of Slievereagh, also a townland in Ballyvourney. They must be close to eachother...it's the same record. If you take a look at the Griffith's Valuation records for both of these townlands, you will find a Hugh Twomy in Gortyrahilly and many Dineens in Slievereagh. I couldn't find his birth in the civil records though. You will find Michael on the right hand side of the Casey index, the sixth from the bottom..

Regards,

Thank you for your reply, Carolyn. That information was helpful.

I had searched  Ancestry.com at a local library and saw the 1 April 1866 birth date for Michael. Because it was 3-4 years off from his self-reported U. S. records, I dismissed it. Is it possible that there are more than one John Toomeys or Twomeys married to Margaret Cronins? I also could not find marriage records for Michael's parents, but will keep looking. I'll look at Griffith's too. Where can I get copies of birth certificates? 

There are probably thousands of Murphys. Where is the best place to find marriage records. I had no luck with Irish Genealogy.

Dennis Toomey

Attached Files

Hi Dennis,

You can probably stop looking for that marriage record because the marriage records for Ballyvourney only go from 1871-1899, and are on the paid site rootsireland.ie. I finally found Michael's birth record in the civil records...it is attached....it's under Toomey, not Twomey. Also, I figured out from looking at the record that Slievereagh is the district and the townland is Gortyrahilly as you will note in the record. The issue of changing their birth years when emigrating is very common...was done for a variety of reasons, the first one probably is that they are just guessing as many did not know the year of their birth. I have ancestors from one family where all five of them remarkably became 10 to 12 years younger when they came to the US! Your Michael is the fourth one from the bottom in the record.

Regards,

 

Also, how certain are you that Mary Murphy came from Cork?  On the irishgenealogy.ie site under the church tab, there is a Patrick Murphy and Bridget Dineen who had 11 children between the years 1855 and 1876. They were from the RC parish of Rathmore, and the townland of Inches. Mary's birthdate is 1 Apr 1866! What an odd coincidence with her husband if, in fact, this is her. The easiest way to view all the children is to click on the "more search options" under the search bar, then type in only the surname Murphy, add the age range, add Kerry, under family member, choose "parent" and type in Bridget Dineen. Maybe this is your relation.

Regards,

Attached Files

Hello Carolyn,

Re: Mary Murphy

I'm not at all certain that Mary came from Cork. My mother left hand-written notes for the three sets of my Irish GGPs: one from Cork, a second from Galway, and the third from Cavan. (I'm hoping to move on to the other sets soon). We have no documentation, however.

I found the attached birth record for a Mary Murphy born March 31,1866 in Inches. Perhaps she was baptized the next day. It appears that Inches is in the District of Millstreet, which is in Cork. Correct? I know the town of Millstreet is in Cork, but I'm not sure if the Millstreet District overlaps into County Kerry. I would think not, but perhaps it did in the old days. So, Patrick and Bridget were married in Rathmore and baptized their 11 children there, even though they were born in Inches, County Cork, which is just over the border. Interestingly, the names of 5 of the 11 children were reported as sponsors at the baptisms of Michael's and Mary's three children who were born here in the U.S. That certainly helps the case that this is the right family. On the other hand, Ancestry has a Daniel Murphy, who also died in Lawrence, MA, with a sister Mary born in 1871 and a brother Eugene born in 1873. I'm beginning to realize that Ancestry's records can be suspect too. However, Ancestry does have a Mary born in Millstreet, Cork and the Casey Collection has the 3/31/1866 birth date. Earlier this year, I did have a short-term subscription to Roots Ireland and found a Mary Murphy with a baptism date of August 25,1866 and with parents Patrick and Bridget Murphy. That date is much later than April 1st and I would have expected the date to be closer to the birth date.

At any rate, I once found a form on your website to use for requesting an official birth or marriage record from the Irish government. Can you please tell me where I can find it? I feel fairly confident that we now have the right Murphy family, but not quite as confident about the Toomeys.

Thank you for your help.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,

I think that I have sorted this out. First to answer your question about official records...the General Registry Office (www.gov.ie) has put their records on irishgenealogy.ie . I'm not sure that any further record would help you, and they might charge a fee. 

Anyhow, the site www.johngrenham.com is very good to view counties, RC parishes, townlands, Griffth's Valuation records, and census records. There you will see that the RC parish of Millstreet in Cork is adjacent to the RC parish of Rathmore in Kerry. There are numerous townlands in both parishes that begin with the word "inch"...I think that Inches is perhaps not a townland, but rather a general area. 

The births of their 11 children are in the church records showing Inches, Rathmore, Kerry; and in the Civil records that began in 1864, it shows Inches, Drishane, Millstreet. I think this is your family...

Honora 1855, Margaret 1856, Denis 1857, Honora 1859, Daniel 1860, Johanna 1863, Mary 1866, Eugene 1868, Bridget 1870, Patrick 1872, and John 1876.

Regards,

Thank you, Carolyn. This has been very helpful.

I'm going to move on to my other ancestors in Cavan and Galway.

Dennis