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James Brien/Bryan, aged 21, (born 1829),  convict number 27000, was tried on 11 March 1850 in Tipperary for sheep stealing. He gave his native place as Killandriff (Killaldriff). He was sentenced to transportation to Van Diemen's Land departing Cork on 29 September 1852 on Lord Auckland (4).

His convict records say he left behind mother, Catherine, Brother Mathew aged 18 (1832) and sisters, Bridget aged 12, (1838) Mary aged 19 (1831). No mention of a father.

Any information regarding birth/baptismal records for the family or where his mother and siblings are buried or marriage registration for his mother would be appreciated.

Thank You,

Christine

 

 

Christine Milne

Sunday 23rd Jul 2023, 09:44AM

Message Board Replies

  • There does not appear to be a townland by that name in Tipperary nowadays, which is not to say that there never was, since the townlands and their boundaries were not finalized until later in the 19th century.  In addition, some locations are used by rural people as addresses, but are not official townland names.  They are sometimes referred to as "sub-townlands".

    I googled Killandriff and found a record of someone being buried in Killandriff church, which you can see at this link:

    https://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/tipperary/cemeteries/powerstown…

    As you can see, though, the mention is a side reference to a record of a burial in Powerstown cemetery, near Clonmel, with no indication as to whether Killandriff is near there.   As a start, you might try searching in the Powerstown area.   You can see the "Old Powerstown Graveyard" if you search for it that way on Google Maps.  Powerstown is in the Catholic parish of the same name, and the online parish records (going back to 1808) are available to be searched at this link:

    https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1114

    Since you have some possible birth years, you could try searching in the Powerstown register for those people, and perhaps you'll be lucky.  If not, perhaps there are church authorities there who can tell you where Killandriff church is located,

    kevin45sfl

    Monday 24th Jul 2023, 12:01AM
  • Just realized I should also try Wikipedia, and I think I've found Kilandriff/Killaldriff[e].  If you search on Wikipedia for Kilmoyler [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilmoyler], you'll see that the short article on that townland mentions a nearby "parochial burial ground of Killaldriffe".  Kimoyler is in the Catholic parish of Cashel and Emly, a few miles to the NW of the parish of Powerstown mentioned above, and the parish registers for Cashel and Emly go even further back than those for Powerstown, to 1793.  You can access them at this link:

    https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0253

    You can see more info about the the townland of Kilmoyler at this link, with an interactive map showing its location:

    https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/clanwilliam/killardry/killadriffe/ki…

    If you search "Kilmoyler Church" on Google Maps and zoom in, you can also see the the Killaldriffe cemetery is marked there as being close to Kilmoyler Church, closer to the highway.  Judging by that map and the one at the townland link above, the cemetery definitely appears to be in the townland of Kilmoyler.  Perhaps the name Kilandriff/Killaldriffe was/is used by local people for that specific area nearer the highway.

    kevin45sfl

    Monday 24th Jul 2023, 12:47AM
  • Christine,

    The 1834 Tithe Applotment records show places called Kiladriff Glebe and Kiladriff Green. They are both in the Bansha-and-Kilmoyer RC parish...civil parish is Killardry. In the Glebe one, there is a Micheal Brien, and in the Green, a Patrick Brien. Two potential fathers for James. The baptism records for Bansha-and-Kilmoyer begin in 1820, but I had no luck finding one for James.

    Regards,

    Carolyn

    Monday 24th Jul 2023, 01:09AM
  • Attached Files

    Attached are two baptism records for Mary Brien, 1835, and Bridget Brien, 1838. Parents are James Brien & Catherine Kearney. Possibly James's sisters.

    Carolyn

    Monday 24th Jul 2023, 03:09AM
  • Yes, of course its Bansha and Kilmoyler parish that I meant to reference.  Not sure why I got myself diverted to the link for Cashel instead. You can still use the link I gave for Cashel and move to Bansha and Kilmoyler using the interactive map there. The link for Kilmoyler townland info is still correct as I gave it, and the discussion of what you can see on Google Maps is still valid.

    kevin45sfl

    Monday 24th Jul 2023, 04:18AM
  • I was intrigued by the name Killandriff/Killaldriff, so I looked further and found some more info about its origin.

    It was (in the form Killadriffe) the name of an electoral district in which the townland of Kilmoyler is located, with the cemetery discussed above being roughly at its center.  You can see it depicted at the logainm.ie site at this link:

    https://www.logainm.ie/en/1374692

    As you can see there, the Irish form of the name is Cill Airdrí.  That name, anglicized as Killardry, is the name of the civil parish in which Kilmoyler is located.  Civil parishes were older divisions which evolved into administrative districts different from the Catholic parishes.  When the Catholic parishes were re-established in modern times, they did not always take the same name as, or have the same boundaries as, the old civil parishes.  Catholic parishes are often larger, and may encompass several civil parishes, as is the case with Basha and Kilmoyler.

    The logainm.ie site also has a page about the civil parish of Killardry, at this link:

    https://www.logainm.ie/en/2293/

    You can see there an extensive history of the many ways that the name was anglicized, and the speculation that Cill Airdrí was once Cill Ard-rígh a Món or Cill Ard-rígh na Mumhan,  which means "Church of the High King of Munster".  The name implies that there once was an actual church by that name, perhaps by the cemetery which was discussed above.  That church may have been abandoned and fallen down by the time of the Reformation, but presumably gave its name to both the civil parish and the electoral district, in different anglicized forms, and also of course to the cemetery.

    kevin45sfl

    Monday 24th Jul 2023, 09:24PM

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