John Roach 1850c Mayo - 1925 Trimdon Village, Durham, England.

Tony:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

Unfortunately, the RC records for Toomore RC parish and Templemore/Straide RC parish start in the 1870s which is much too late for your purposes. The 1851 Census search form that you have, was part of a Old Age Pension application that John made around 1916. I don't think the Philip Roach in Ummoon townland in Templemore parish  is your gr-gr- grandfather. I think that when you look at the 1855 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Toomore parish, there is an Anthony Roach in Kilmore townland.     https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/toomore.htm

My guess is that Philip and Anthony were connected either as brothers or possibly Anthony was the father of Philip. I would also believe that the Patrick and James Roach you mention are brothers to John based on the remarks on the 1851 census search form.

I located an 1879 civil death record for a 50 year old Philip Roach in Cuilmore. The informant was a Mary Roach. Possibly this record is for your ancestor.

You may want to consider DNA testing.

Let me know if you have questions.

Roger McDonnell

Tony:

Sorry, here is the death record https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Roger

Toomore does have some earlier marriage records (1833-1840), and you might find Philip's marriage:  https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632326#page/1/mode/1up

My grandmother grew up in Killasser, which is the parish to the eat of Toomore, and the records there go back to 1847, so it might be worth a check there.  The main Killasser surnames in my family are McNulty, McDonnell, McAndrew, and Loftus, and I've found all of those names in the Toomore parish registers as well.  I did not note down any Roaches, but it wasn't a name I was looking for at the time.  You might also check in Swinford, which adjoins Toomore to the southeast.  Some Swinford records go back to 1808, although there are some large gaps, and people were sometimes baptized in neighboring parishes which may have had a church building earlier than their home parish.  Also, weddings usualy took place in the bride's parish, and I've found marriages 2-3 parishes away from where the family ended up living.

I second the idea of doing DNA testing.  I did it and have already been in touch with four second-third cousins with origins in that part of Mayo whom I found by comparing results, and there are also a large number of other DNA matches I have there with whom I haven't been ablte to establish the exact connection (I have two grandparents from the same area, so lots of matches as a result).  I even found that the house where my grandfather grew up is stil in the family.

Roger, Thanks for your prompt reply. I was always curious about why Patrick Roach would pay 2/- in 1916 for a Census extract. Your Old Age Pension answer has solved that mystery. Have you seen a copy of this extract? If Patricks parents are shown as Philip & Honor (McVey) Roach, then would it follow that the John Roach was his brother & the others named,were siblings. My own tree on Ancestry  contains all the details I have for Engand & show the 1911 England census with Patrick Roach & John Roach at the same address.  I know it is all circumstantial, but, if the 1851 extract is correct, I would like to concentrate on those details. The 1881 marriage proves john Roach was in Trimdon Village in that year. Could your reference to the Templemore records starting in 1870 show details of any or all of the members of this family still being in ireland until shortly before they first appear in England in 1881. Could you guide me through the process of looking at these Templemore records. I appreciate your belief that the Ummoon records are not my family, but, I would like to investigate thoroughly before moving on. My inexperience is probably the reason I would like to know about the Ummoom family. Is there a RC church near to Ummoon that could hold the BMD records for that time. Your knowledge that the parish of the bride could be elsewhere may still  be a big factor.  The 1879 death record for Philip Roach is great, I will try to navigate each site to find the details. The informant Mary Roach is an unfamiliar name, but, could be an important piece of information. My experience with irish websites is nil, so it may take me some time to find my way around. DNA testing is definitely something for me to consider.

Kevin, thanks for the Toomore marriage information, I will try to navigate the website to find the details. I will investigate your Killaster lead as soon as I can. Many years ago I followed up leads for Swinford, I bought lots of certificates, but, all proved inconclusive, I eventually got so frustrated that I gave up searching. This will probably be my last chance to find my Irish ancestors, so, I need all the help I can find.   

.  

Hi Tony!

I looked at the actual 1851 census abstract record and John, Patrick, James and Anthony would all be brothers as I suspected from your initial message.

Ummoon is in Templemore parish and the RC records start very late 1888 for baptisms and 1872 for marriages. Here is the parish register with marriage records from 1872-1880  https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0138

The subscription site Roots Ireland has twenty nine Roach baptismal records from 1888-1900 and seven marriage records for the same period.

Let me know if you have questions.

Roger

Roger ~ Thanks again for the update. I have checked all the leads from yourself & Kevin. The websites you both listed are interesting, my navigation of these sites is improving. It appears that the content of the sites is limited to odd bits & pieces with lots of missing years for BMD. Where can I find a complete record of BMD for the two Parishes Templemore & Toomore for the years 1829 to 1880. I am curious to know the name of the Parish Church or Churches that originally created the records for the two parishes which appear to share this part of Mayo. Apart from Templemore, Is Kilkonduff also known as Toomore & is Kilmore known as Cuilmore. Would the Roots Ireland site have complete BMD details of the Parishes & Homelands for the dates 1829 to 1880.

Tony.

Tony:

Records are limited for Toomore and Templemore parishes and Kilconduff records go back a lot earlier. Roots Ireland only has records for the years shown below.

Roger

Templemore/Straide RC parish has baptismal records starting in 1888 and marriage records starting in 1872

Toomore RC parish has baptismal records starting in 1871 and marriages in 1870 plus as Kevin pointed out there are some marriage records available for 1833-1840

Kilconduff/Swinford RC parish has baptismal records from 1822-1826 and 1841 on. Marriage records start 1808-1839 and 1842-1878

Here are the links to the present parishes.

https://achonrydiocese.org/parishes/mayo/foxford/

https://achonrydiocese.org/parishes/mayo/straide/

https://achonrydiocese.org/parishes/mayo/swinford/