Hello.
These questions are really for both County Carlow and County Wicklow, as the families I’m researching lived on either side of the counties’ border. And at least one RC parish appears to have encompassed parts of both counties, and I hope that someone can help me better understand the parish/townland/county relationships.
My ancestor George Fitzharris was born in March 1835 in Bornamonnia (sic), a townland in County Wicklow. His baptism was recorded as 25 March 1835 in the RC Parish Clonegall records, in County Carlow.
(http://www.igp-web.com/Carlow/Clonegall_1835.htm)
Civil records I have found over George’s lifetime (1835-1918) were in the Barony/District of Shillelagh. I have him living in Bornamonia at his baptism and at the baptism of his children in the mid1860s to early 1870s, then in Minmore in the late 1800s, and in Knockeen 1901-1911. He died in the Shillelagh workhouse in 1918.
I have baptism records, census records, some of the land lease records from the Fitzwilliam estate (his father Micheal was a leasee as well), several court records for wandering animals, and his death record plus a news clipping about workhouse business that references his death. This is a lot, I know - more than many descendants can find.
I will be visiting the area next spring (Nevin is another family branch from Leighlinbridge/Bagnalstown that I will be searching for as well), and I would very much like to visit cemeteries where these family members may be buried to pay my respects.
George had a son, Micheal, and according to family lore, Micheal and his twin brother died at or soon after birth when the family were at Bornamonia. I have baby Michael’s birth record, but appear to need to apply in writing for his death record. No record appears to have made for the twin, so I assume he was a stillbirth, and Michael survived for a time.
George’s wife Anne died in 1909 when they were in Knockeen, and I have her death record.
Would each of these family members have been buried where they died, or would the elders have been “brought home” to be buried near other family members?
How best might I find them - or the cemetery if the graves are not marked, which I understand is likely?
The surviving children, four daughters, all emigrated to the USA in their early 20s. The eldest, Mary Ann, was my great-grandmother. The youngest daughter, Harriet, returned for a near year-long visit with her small daughter when the parents were in Knockeen (1903-1904), but that is the only evidence I have of the relationship between the parents and their daughters after the girls emigrated.
I believe George had siblings and nieces who remained in Ireland, but my information about them is very tenuous.
I will appreciate any help with my search.
Thank you.
Dawn Berry
DBerry
Wednesday 27th Sep 2023, 07:43PMMessage Board Replies
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Dawn:
I don't know if you came across this site which has Shillelagh workhouse records. You may be able to learn more about George when he was admitted etc.
As you likely know, the free site irishgenealogy.ie does not have images of death records from 1864-1870. We have been waiting for a few years for these images. I would continued to wait until the image is posted.
Bornamonia is actually Barnamuinga and that townland is about a mile from Minmore townland and both townlands are in the civil parish of Moyacomb in Co. Wicklow. Knockeen is in the civil parish of Liscolman. The RC parish for Liscolman is actually Clonmore rather than Clonegal which is the parish for Barnamuinga and Minmore.
I would contact Clonmore to see https://www.kandle.ie/parish/ where Anne may have been buried. Not sure if George would have been brought back to Knockeen for burial.
Roger McDonnell
Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
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Thank you, Roger.
I was aware of Barnamuinga & its proximity to Minmore. If all goes as planned, I will be staying in a Minmore farm cottage rental quite near the farm in Barnamuinga townland where my great-grandmother grew up.
I have also scrolled through the workhouse records online with no luck so far. I haven’t quite figure out how the info is organized — there seems to be a lot of repetition, but I’m sure it makes sense if you understand the system.
Am I correct in understanding that parishes didn’t keep a record of burials in their cemeteries? And would a stillborn infant have been allowed to be interred in a RC cemetery in 1868? As far as I can tell, the parish would still have been Clonegal when the twins were born and died. Is there anyone I could contact that might have more information specific to the Clonegal parish?
Thanks.
Dawn
DBerry
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Dawn:
In the 19th century most RC parishes did not maintain death information. Here is the parish register for Clonegal up to 1880. I would look for Michael in the baptismal records and see if there is a second entry I don't know the answer to the burial of a stillborn child. I would contact Clonegal parish using the link above.
Roger
Castlemore Roscommon, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘