Fitzsimmons / Mulvey / McLaughlin (O'Laughlin): County Mayo

Mike:

Neither surname was very common in Co. Mayo based on Griffiths Valuation data from around 1855. I searched the subscription site Roots Ireland and did not locate a marriage record or any baptismal records for children of the couple.

Many of the Mayo RC parishes have records starting in the 1840s or later which could explain not finding any records/

Have you considered DNA testing? Possibly you will have matches that might provide info on the origins of your ancestors.

Roger McDonnell

Hi Roger,

Thanks for your work and the note - I really appreciate it!

I admit I am an amateur at this kind of research, but what work I have done in County Mayo with respect to Fitzsimmons / Mulvey always comes up empty. Those who know much more than I have said that many of the historical RC parish records in Mayo were destroyed by fire (or British dragoons), and that many of the Western counties of Ireland (including County Mayo) were excluded from the early official country census because the census workers were worried about their personal safety in the heavily Gaelic and patriotic area. I have not independently verified these assertions, but they sound plausible to me. Plus, I have looked at some of the earliest official country-wide Census reports and, indeed, a few of the western-most counties (including Mayo) were not represented in the earliest Census reports.

The earliest Fitzsimmons in Ireland appeared to have settled in numbers in County Cavan and in Ulster after the Norman invasion (1172). Arguably the most important line in Ireland settled in the Counties of Meath, Dublin, Wicklow Wexford later - in the 1300's.

I have done an extensive search through various online cemetery records available for County Mayo, again - to no avail.

My plan now is to work from two narratives:

1. A relatively small contingent of Fitzsimmons apparently accompanied Lord Pendergast to County Mayo (estimated late 1100's early 1200's). Pendergast was a companion of Strongbow (Lord Pembroke) and was rewarded with holdings from King Henry II for his part in the Norman invasion. This branch is very likely my stock. Indeed, even in the U.S. there seems to be solid connections between the Pendergast & Fitzsimmons families to this day. However, there is no history of Pendergasts at Sartwell, so perhaps I am on a wild goose chase.

2. Work backwards from the United States from any potential ship / emigration records of the Fitzsimmons at Sartwell, PA. That part of Pennsylvania was very wild and unsettled in the mid 1800's, few (if any) roads and very thick woods in mountainous terrain. At that time, railroads had yet to penetrate anywhere near Sartwell. Given the assumed state of their health after the boat trip across the Atlantic (and perhaps even before leaving due to the famine...), and how far and hard a trip from, say, Boston, New York, or Philly to Sartwell would have been by wagon or even horse, my guess is they were part of the Irish that came to America (and Canada) via the St. Lawrence seaway. I was reading how unwelcome the (poor and diseased ...) Irish had become in Boston and New York, and that many of the ships were rebuffed from those ports and instead headed to the St. Lawrence. However, the Erie Canal was complete at that time and may have provided transport if the Fitzsimmons had had some money. Apparently they had enough to buy 40 acres, clear the land, and build the original farmhouse, so I don't really know.

Unfortunately, I started all this too late and my Dad has passed and so too most all ancestors who would have known. As the song goes: "I wish that I knew what I know now when I was younger."

For now, I am holding out on the DNA ID tests ... I haven't reconciled my mind to the idea for a number of reasons. I have direct documentation that "the first" Michael Fitzsimmons here came from County Mayo, so not sure how much good a "match" would do me other than potentially enable contact with others who may have additional information. Regardless, it is certainly a viable option and I am thinking about it ... but knowing myself quite well, I'll probably exhaust all other avenues first.

Meantime, I am hoping I get lucky on IrelandXO, just like I did with your reply! Thanks again. And thanks in advance to anyone else that may be able to help me out.

Best regards,

Mike

Mike:

I just finished a historical fiction book on the "Princes of Ireland" which covered the time from St. Patrick all the way to 1600 and covered Strongbow, King Henry II, Brian Boru etc. So your message resonates with me.

I do know that most of the western counties as you indicated don't have many church records back to the early part of the 19th century. Donegal in particular has few parishes with records before 1850s. I don't know if the Bishops instructed parish priests to destroy their registers or what the circumstances were.

The 1821 thru 1851 censuses were destroyed in the Public Records Office fire in Dublin in 1922. Don't know if Mayo had a complete 1821 census before the fire. There are a few fragments of 1821 records left for a few counties. Co. Cavan by far has the most for whatever reason. Almost have of the civil parishes have records available from 1821 on the National Archives site.

I agree with you about not talking to our ancestors who were alive. My one grandmother from Roscommon lived to be 96 and I did get some info from her before she died but there were many questions I have now which I never brought up when she was alive.

All the best with your research!

Roger

Hi Roger,

I have heard of the book you recommended ... do you recommend it?

Thanks for pointing out the National Archives site ... I had dug through many of those, but yes, pre-famine records in the western Gaelic counties are very difficult to come by. I contacted a well-respected genealogist in Ireland (because her last name was Fitzsimmons and she had done President Biden's family, which was also from County Mayo), but after talking to several other genealogists who had done work in the area, they advised me not to spend a lot of cash on research for the reasons I gave earlier. And yes, the 1821 Census in County Cavan has a ton of Fitzsimmons. It must have been a minor branch of the family that joined Pendergast to County Mayo, thus making the search even more difficult.

You were lucky to have spent time with your Grandmother and get some of your questions answered. I feel like I wasted soooo much time with both my parents in this regard, and for whatever reason, they had these conversations with me when I was too young (under 20) and ignorant to appreciate what they were passing down or to ask all the questions I have today. I'm actually writing a book now on our family's history (and thus why I joined this site) just to document what I know and what I have find out, because if I don't it will likely be lost forever to the future generations.

On my Mom's side, I recently found out that two of her ancestors lived in the same house in Pennsylvania and spelled their last names differently. My Mom never knew why and stuff like that just blows my mind. I only wish I (and my parents!) had had Google when I was younger. My Mom's family was from Tralee, but I haven't really started her side yet as I have my hands full focusing on the Fitzsimmons.

I just discovered there is a copy of "Passenger & Immigration Lists" by Filby & Meyer in my local library. It contains records for 500,000 passengers in the 17th, 18th, and 19th Centuries to the U.S. and Canada. So I am heading down this week to check that out. Fingers crossed.

Anyhow, thanks for your note and I wish you success with your queries as well. Honestly, as a result of my work to date, my expectations of finding much on the Ireland side is not high. However, I am not ready to throw in the towel yet, remain optimistic and hope to get lucky on IrelandXO. I plan to visit Ireland again next year and hope to find some residents that can assist me.

Best regards,

Mike

Mike:

I would recommend the book.

Records for Tralee RC parish go back to the late 1700s.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Roger

Hi Roger,

Thanks - I will check it out.

Yes, my uncle paid for some research work and we did get some (limited) records from the Tralee area (from parish records). Unfortunately, and like Mayo, further progress is unlikely has churches and records were burned. I think the best chances of getting additional historical information is small, and would primarily be through living persons. Once I get some time, I will make an additional post on IrelandXO for help on my Mom's side and would certainly accept any suggestions you might have after viewing it. Thanks!

Best regards,

Mike