Elusive Watsons & Crowes

Margaret,

Link to previous post about this family:

https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/crowe-descendants

I can see at least 4 children to William John & Margaret’s marriage:

Richard 21.2.1864

Thomas 23.3.1866

Ruth 14.9.1868

Jane 13.11.1871

There may have been others in the period 1856 – 1863 but that was before the start of statutory records and so you would need to search church records for them.  (The Holland family tree on Ancestry has Maria Ann 1857, Ellen 1861 and William 1862, in addition to the 4 I found). The family lived in Ballycollin. There are 10 probate abstracts on the PRONI wills site relating to the Crowe families in Ballycollin. These may relate to your branch:

Probate of the Will of William John Crowe late of Ballycollin, County Antrim, farmer, who died 31 January 1899 granted at Belfast to Edward Sinclair, Ballycollin, farmer. Effects: £47 10s 0d.

Crowe Thomas of Ballycollin county Antrim farmer died 21 December 1923 at County Antrim Infirmary Lisburn county Antrim Probate Belfast 1 February to Thomas Crowe farmer and the reverend Thomas Henry Egerton curate. Effects £422 12s. 5d.

The wills themselves are not on-line and you either need to go to PRONI to copy them or pay someone to do that for you.

There were 6 Crow(e) households in Ballycollin in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Derryaghey/Ballycollin/

This looks to be your immediate line:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Derryaghey/Ballycollin/996834/

1911 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Derryaghy/Ballycollin/

Again this looks to be your immediate line:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Derryaghy/Ballycollin/197124/

Perhaps you could indicate which of the 7 children you are interested in tracing further, to enable us to focus on the right people? The Holland tree contains details of what happened to 5 of the 7 children. The other 2 may have died young.

Thank you Elwyn for a wonderfully prompt reply.  Regarding tracing any of the 7 children ... at this stage, I don't mind - I am hoping to find one of the existing descendants who might happen to know more about Margaret Ann Bruce's family background.  I have done much searching, and a lot of it has brought blanks.  As far as I know Margaret's and William's children were Maria Ann, b. 1857, Ellen/Elleanor b. 1861, Richard b. 1864, Thomas Ritchie b. 1866 and also William John (I presumed they were twins), Ruth B b. 14 Sept 1868 and Jane b. 13 Nov 1871.  I have often wondered if Ruth's B. stood for "Bruce", the maiden name of Margaret.  My searching took me to USA for Ruth.  She emigrated to Delaware in 1886, had two hildren to John Lawther/Lowther (I don't know if they married).  Ruth died of pulmonary phthisis in 1891.  Their two girls were Sarah (or Sadie).  I've guessed that Sadie lived with an Irish family after Ruth's death.  Mabel was left in an institution, and died there at the age of 13, also from tuberculosis.

I was interested in the will of William John Crow ... and wondered what link the recipient had with his family.  Jane, I believe married a George Hull and some of those descendants might be around.  Ellen married James Watson and they had 10 children (I think).  Some of the Watson family could be around also.

I am hoping that some of the current day descendants might know a little about the origins of Margaret's family.  I am at a loss to find much about them.  Her parents were Richard Bruce and Maria Parkinson.  Maria's father was John Parkinson. Elizabeth Scott (whom I guess you know) found a microfiche which revealed their marriage at Derriaghy, and also the baptisms of the first three girls, Margaret Ann, Maria and Ruth (twins).   My grandmother was the eighth child born to Elizabeth Bruce, the youngest sibling of Margaret Ann.  The Holland family tree which you mentioned on Ancestry would probably belong to Jennifer whose g.grandmother was the sixth child born to Elizabeth.  Richard Bruce, Margaret's father was a soldier in the 11th Devon Regiment of Foot and in 1945 was with the regiment that escorted convicts to Australia. 

About me - I'm an 83-year-old, unmarried, and living in Adelaide, South Australia.

Margaret,

Regarding Ruth’s middle name, her birth certificate doesn’t contain a middle name. She was just given the name Ruth. See:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03433/2260180.pdf

Sometimes people born without a middle name acquired one when they migrated to North America as middle names were definitely more common there. It wouldn’t be surprising if B did stand for Bruce. It was quite common to use a mother’s middle name in that way.

Thomas born 23.3.1866 wasn’t a twin. (That’s evident from his birth certificate. Twins have their time of birth recorded, and would normally be adjacent in the records). I can’t see a birth for William John. That suggests he was born before 1864. So possibly in 1862 as per the Holland family tree.

You enquire about the 1899 will, Edward Sinclair wasn’t the recipient. He was the executor. Presumably someone that William John Crowe felt he could trust. A neighbour evidently from his address. You would need to get a copy of the will to find out who the beneficiaries were.

I found a marriage for Jane Crowe to George Hull (also from Ballycollin) on 12.6.1891:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10666/5886693.pdf

Here’s the family in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballygomartin/Englishtown/988922/

And in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Breda/Ballynavally/247700/

These might be two of George Hull senior’s children (both died intestate):

Hull, George of Mullaghglass Stoneyford Lisburn county Antrim quarry worker died 10 January 1963 at White Mountain Lisburn Administration Belfast 11 June to Sophia Hull the widow. Effects £204 8s.

Hull Richard of 96 Dunedin Park Belfast quarryman died 9 March 1947 at Upper Ballysillan Belfast Administration Belfast 29 July to Catherine Ann Hull the widow. Effects £141 2s. 4d.

In addition, I suspect George senior died 5.10.1963. He doesn’t appear to have left a will.

You can view all 3 of the above death certificates on-line on the GRONI site. https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

George junior appears to have died in an accident at White Mountain quarry up above Belfast. He was the foreman and apparently fell into a 40 foot stone cleaning tower. He had gone to the top of the tower to switch off some electric powered plant. He didn’t return and was then found at the foot of the tower having apparently fallen in it and been smothered by stone. The death was reported in the Belfast Telegraph of 10th January 1963. The following days paper contained a family death notice, together with a sympathy message from his Orange Lodge in Stoneyford. He was buried in Ballinderry Middle graveyard. The Belfast Telegraph of 12th Jan 1963 contains sympathy notices which give details of some of his family: daughter & sister in law Eileen & Johnny Harbinson, Stoneyford; daughter and son in law Myrtle & Billy Heaney, 8 Templeton Park, Templepatrick; sister and brother in law Margaret & Frank Watson 3 James St, Lisburn; sister in law Cis, 53 Westmoreland St, Belfast.

You could possibly get a researcher to try and trace the people mentioned in the 1963 newspaper (or their descendants).

Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

I hope this helps a little. (I am not connected to these families. I am a volunteer for Ireland Reaching Out who lives in Co. Antrim).