1800-1900ish Loughnanes in Toomevara, Reiskmore, Falleen

Hello Betsy, I noticed your query was not picked up so assume there is no local volunteer with on the ground knowledge, I have Tipperary relatives and so have a look at the queries. There is a site here attached to the local library and I see there is contact information which may be of assistance. http://tipperarystudies.ie/historical-society/

Also there is a Facebook page on Tipperary Genealogy, private but apply to join and you may get some information too.

I see that Falleen and Reisk are townlands, you can view them here https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/ A rough translation of Reiskmore would be Reisk big as Mor or More is the gaelic for Big or large, so locally there may be two and the more will define where they are.

Sorry I cannot be more help but please try again if you have more queries.

Regards

Pat

Hi Betsy,

I literally joined this site within the last 10 minutes and was looking around to see what was what.

I see you mentioned Fallen House. I believe my great grandfather came from this house. I have a picture of the house but don't know how to attach it for you to see. Its run down and hasn't been occupied for a long time. My great grandfather was Arthur McCarthy and he was married 3 times, had children with 2 of his wife's. Not sure if you have any McCarthy's in your history. 

Ballymackey would be close to Fallen and is actually where I grew up. Ballinree Church is in Ballymackey, and is all part of Killaoe parish (which encompasses a large area)

I know there was a Johanna McCarthy, I wonder is this the connection?

I don't think I have any Loughnanes in my McCarthy tree but to be honest it's a very large tree. I will check.

Let me know if any of this was of any help or if I might be able to answer any of your questions. 

Kind regards,

Claire 

Hi Claire! I was so excited to open up your reply! Thank you. I have no known McCarthys in my tree unfortunately. And really I dont have any idea if your Falleen House and Reuskmore house are one and the same. It's purely a guess. Patrick Loughnane(my g grandfather's brother and my g g grandfather Denis Loughnane's son, lived in Reiskmore House(was on a write up of his will.) However in 1901 and 1911 censys they live in Falleen.Someone once said they thought Reiskmore and Falleen were the same so I thought to type in Falleen House. I would love to see a picture if you figure out how to post!

Ballinree Church is where the article I have says Catherine was brought. And I do know that Denis,Catherine, Patrick, and Johanna Loughnane and a couple children are in Ballygibbon Cemetary. Also a Denis Loughnane who died in 1800.Do you know where that is?

That's exciting for you to know and have pictures where your ancestors lived. I only wish there were better records available back then but am grateful for what I do have.

I will try and look back at some land records and maps to see if we can determine if this was the same house.

Most of the birth records for the family I have say Toomevara as birth place. But Denis had land or rented in Clonalea, Reiskmore/Falleen, Ballymackey, etc. Different records say difficult things.

Do you know anything about the schools in the area they may have gone to.? What are the dates for your McCarthys in Falleen? That may help a bit.

Thanks again for contacting and any information is valued!
Betsy

Attached Files

Hi Betsy,
I'm glad this was some help to you. As far as I know Faleen house is where my Great Grandfather came from but thats as far back as I have gone. 

https://goo.gl/maps/Ncf33RMwt8bRqT7Q7

The above link is for Ballymackey on Google Maps. You can see the town land of Riskmore, slightly above and on the left of it.

 

Its so weird that you mentioned Clonalea, This was my grandmother's, Molly (Mary) Cummins, who married a son of Arthur McCarthy, Michael McCarthy (my grandfather) home place, Its just outside the village of Toomevara. (52.853296, -8.058959 GPS co-ordnance).

As I said there are no Loughnanes in my family tree that I know of. But what often happened was the farms had laborers who where with them for years and often lived and worked on the farm and were considered part of the family. Maybe that is why there are connections between us. I know Arthur McCarthy would have come from land.

I have attached the picture I have of Fallen House (2017).

I will try to explain how the areas are linked.

Lets start with Ballinree. Ballinree has a school, known as Bishop Hartys National School, with Ballinree Church right beside it. These are in the town land of Ballymackey. Reiskmore is another town land beside Ballymackey. But as with local areas I always though Fallen House was in Ballymackey but from the map it appears to be in Reiskmore. 

Fallen House

52°52'44.7"N 8°02'11.6"W

52.879075, -8.036556

Now both Ballymackey and Reiskmore are in the parish of Toomevara. Nenagh (the closest town) would be another parish, beside us. And then Killaloe dioceses holds a number of parishes (https://www.killaloediocese.ie/our-diocese/priest-directory/) The diocese is actually a massive area.

Over the next few days I will have a look in the local graveyards for Loughnanes and see what I can find for you.

I don't know Ballybibbon Cemetery but can ask around.

I'll be back to you.

Kind regards,

Claire

This is all so amazing to me! Thank you so much for the picture and further information! I really appreciate it. My mom is 91 and very sharp and as I've found out each new bit of information, she is excited.

I did wonder again what dates your McCarthy family would have lived there in the house. I do know that Patrick and Johanna and children and a servant were there in the 1901 census and Johanna was in the 1911 census with her children and a servant.(Patrick had died by then just a bit earlier.) After that I'm not sure. Need to research bit more.

Could you tell if the house had other buildings or remains if buildings on the land? I believe there were several other buildings...large barn, fowl house, and a couple others.

Thanks again for corresponding with me.

Betsy

Attached Files

Hi Betsy,

The house in Fallen does have out buildings, large barn ect. Not sure about fowl house.

I roped my father and sister into your search today. My dad is into tracing but unlike you mother his is in poor health and not as sharp as he was. He knew exactly where Ballygibbon graveyard was and we took a trip to it today. My sister got pictures of the Loughnane gravestones, 3 together, side-by-side. I have attached pictures. You can't read one of the headstones from the picture so we found this link that transcripes the gravestone inscriptions, Loughnanes are on page 4: https://tipperarystudies.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/B.%20Vol%202%20Parish%20of%20Ballygibbon%20reduced.pdf. The most recent headstone isn't listed on this document but its easy to read from the picture.

Googlemap: Ballygibbon Graveyard
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/52%C2%B054'10.7%22N+8%C2%B006'05.5%22W/@52.9029618,-8.1020602,169m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m9!1m2!11m1!3e4!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d52.902961!4d-8.1015132?hl=en&authuser=0

We also checked Toomevara, Ballinree and Ballymackey graveyards but couldn't find any more Loughnane. Maybe try the inscription website.

Then I remembered that as a child we used to often have to go to a farm (think we were renting land there) to feed cattle and we just called it "Loughnanes". I asked my Dad and he said it was owned by Jimmy Loughnane along with his brother Denis, possible. That Jimmy & Denis were around his age, which would be around 70. As names are often repeated its very likely these are your people. We took a trip there next and when I checked google maps at this location it was Riskmore, Ballymackey. This could be your Reiskmore House? See picture attached.

Googlemap: Loughnane farm:

I now think the Reiskmore (Riskmore) is more likely a place name within Ballymackey, like Fallen or Ballinree.

I know this is a bit morbide but I often look up an irish website rip.ie. I find it is a good resource as when someone dies they often list the people who have preceeded then and the family members who miss them. Thats not its propuse, as you can imange, it to get funeral arrangements so we can attend to pay our respects.

I also tried to find Reskmore (Riskmore) on a website that has Irish Place Names but it wasn't listed. I found Faleen - https://www.logainm.ie/en/46232?s=Falleen - If you look you will see Kilgorteen right beside it. This is my homeplace.

I asked my Dad when Arthur McCarthy (born 1878) would have lived in Falleen and he though that Arthur was originally from Tullamore (big town in Co. Offaly) and would have lived in Kilgorteen 1st and bought into Faleen. I know that from the 1901 census. There were no McCarthy's in Falleen in 1850 (see below). Rob. Cole Bowen was a big landowner in the 1850 as far as I am aware.

Arthurs father, Thomas McCarthy has Kilgorteen on his headstone, so I think my Dad is right. Thomas might have come from Tullamore to Kilgorteen and Arthur grew up there, then bought Fallen when he got married maybe? 

"1850

Property

Fallen's landlord was Rob. Cole Bowen and there are no records of McCarthy's in the records of Falleen. Kilgorteen's landlord was Rob. Cole Bowen and there are no records of McCarthy's in the records of Kilgorteen. On map location 38, Tenant was Morgan Meara.

  Griffiths Valuation Record - 1850"

 

One more piece of information you might be interested in. My sister found a Kathleen Loughnane - https://www.discogs.com/artist/3495565-Kathleen-loughnane - whos record label is Reiskmore. She could be your relation. You could try contacting her.

 

I think thats all I'm able to find out for you but if you have any other queries I would be happy to try and answer them. 

 

Kind regards,

Claire

Claire, I can't thank you enough for your kindness and work! And your dad as well! This is truly going way above and beyond! I cant wait to share all this with my mom and siblings! I did have another couple questions but I will save for tomorrow or soon when I have more time to write. For now I'm sending off these pics and information to my mom. Thank you again. Betsy

Hi Claire. I began am Emily on my computer but it almost all got erased! So here I go again back to my phone. Thank you again for your time and energy taking a roadtrip to the places I was interested in. My husband and I were planning a trip to Ireland this fall and hoped to see some of these sites in person. It's all on hold now due to covid but you gave me the next best thing!

I spent time on computer going to some places on the map. Riskmore brought me right to the presumed Loughnane house! Between your pics and these, I have a good idea of it. Some of the buildings have new roofs. I see the house in great disrepair and assume that no one lives there anymore. I wonder who owns the place now. Maybe its rented out for land use only?

I did know that Robert Cole Bowen was a big landowner in the area. When I would type in Reiskmore or Falleen it would send me to Hawkshawe house information (house owned by RCBowen family.) I too could never find Loughnane name connected to the house. Actually from what I can tell though articles and court papers(things I read on free weeks on different sites) Denis Loughnsne was bailiff for RC Bowen and would collect rents etc.from others on Bowen's extensive lands. Denis also was a Guardian for the Nenagh workhouse.

If you think of anything else or have any other information re any of this, I would love to hear it. I had the thought that maybe your dad knew Denis and Jimmy? Did they live there with families? Or just own it and rent the lands?

I looked back at some of my land books etc.but found no McCarthys who lived nearby our Loughnanes. I wish I could be of a bit if help to you as well.

Thank you and Blessings,
Betsy

Hi Claire

We'd love if you shared your Falleen House photo and details to our ancestral Buildings Chronicles. Here's how... https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/buildings-places-masterclass

Hi Betsy, your great grandfather was my great great grandfathers brother! I came across your query when researching reiskmore where my mum, Kathleen loughnane (the harpist identified previously and your relation!) Grew up. Reiskmore is a farmhouse that I have visited quite a few times although it is now a ruin. As luck would have it, my aunt Anne Gilchrist (née Loughnane) has written two books on the loughnane family history :

https://www.bookdepository.com/Hannas-Story-Tipperary-Heritage-Anne-Lou…

https://www.bookdepository.com/Clarewomans-Journey-Anne-Loughnane/97815…

and I'm sure would welcome you getting in touch !

All the best,
Paul

Paul, this is a WOW! Thsnk you soooo much for contacting here.I went to the book sites and purchased many of the first book for. Christmas gifts. The second one I couldn't tell who it was about so I held off. I feel like I "know" Johanna a bit through my research and she would be my G GRANDFATHER John's sister in law. In my research I have most information about Patrick and Johanna.

So I have so many questions. Was it Patrick who was your GG grandfather? Do you know anything about his/John's and the other siblings growing up in Reiskmore with Denis and Catherine? Do you know anything about Denis(Patrick and John's dad)and his siblings? Or Denis parents names and where they came from. Or Catherine's
parents/siblings? I have them marrying in Templederry. Do you know what they were like as people?

Do you know why John of all the children came to America? And did Denis and Catherine have a Rev.James, then John, Patrick and one or two others, then a break f a few years and then many others? At least one of the younger siblings; Teresa I believe came to US and married a Dunn.

I have letters from his brother Rev.James where he talks about a Michael and maybe a Thomas who moved away to Dublin. I also have some newspaper articles/obituaries mostly of Rev.James in great detail on my tree on Family Search.

Well that's probably enough for starters....woukd love to hear back from you. And if anything I can shed light on as well I will be glad to.
Betsy

And PS I just now received this or I would have immediately responded. I saw the date was July 2020! I'm shocked as usually I get these in a timely fashion. Hooing to hear soon!

PPS and did end up getting a few of the second book also! Couldn't resist.

Hi Betsy, glad you got the message and the links - there's a family tree in the books that will help.. I'm afraid, although I've read the books, my knowledge is scant and extends little beyond Anne's research and some stories from my mother. I can however guarantee that Anne will be a veritable mine of information if you contact her by email.. I will forward her address shortly. I have realised that the other book is much less relevant as it deals with Anne's maternal grandmother Kate Corbett, but it's a hugely interesting lifestory nonetheless. Very best, Paul

Ok thank you so much. I woukd very much like Anne's email if she is agreeable to that! Betsy

And just a question is Anne's grandmother Johanna's mom? That gives me another person to research if so...Betsy

Hi Betsy, Anne would be delighted to chat to you and can be contacted at the following: annegilch@gmail.com

Thank you very much!

The Hawkshaws were at Falleen up until about the 1840s . The family were tennants on several properties in the district and there are several graves in the Ballymackey cemetery. My great great grandfather, Benjamin Hawkshaw, migrated to Australia in 1853. The Fallern House is still standing and was lived in until the 1960d, the neighbours told me.

Interesting, thank you.